Climate Change

[henry quirk]

*shrug*

[SpheresOfBalance]

Maybe I'm wrong, because I haven't read all of your twos argument, but it seems that HQ is on the fence of belief either way, no?

I for one, 'know' humans are responsible. For me it's a no brainer. Want proof? Fill up an 8oz. cup with the water in a 2qt. picture until the picture is empty, without emptying the cup of course. Tell me what you see? Ditto, it's a no brainer!

[Hobbes' Choice]

Then why cant you speak intelligently about the subject. I give facts, sources etc. All you give is,you're wrong and stupid.

Any moron can use Google.
But you don't understand what you are linking.

[SpheresOfBalance]

I think some of the newer BMW's get pretty reasonable gas mileage, over 30.

Over here you should be easily getting over 30mpg out of a car. My 2 litre ford mpv diesel does 35+ in town.

If your Yamaha is a motor cycle, 40 is pretty crappy MPG, better bikes could do a lot better.

Most bikes can't compete with cars, it's the aerodynamics, i.e. big fat bastard sitting in the wind.
You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground Arising. As to fuel economy and power per pound, it's cars that can't compete with bikes. That's acceleration that I'm talking about, not top end. On a straight away no car can out accelerate a sports bike, and get better gas mileage while doing it.

I wouldn't ride one of those death traps for less than 100 MPG.

Given what it'd have to be to achieve this it wouldn't be any fun to ride. Me, I'll stick with low mileage, easily equivalent to a yank-tank, and the ability to out-accelerate pretty much any high-performance car out there and all for 3000 odd pounds if you buy secondhand, gotta love the Japanese.

You obviously don't no crap about automotive's.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Ned and Raw_Thought, ignore the dissenters. They're either yanking your chain, or fear admitting the truth, scared shitless of their complicity. They're in denial, in psychology considered the first stage of coping.

Good job on the stuff you've posted by the way, you two. Thanks for fighting the good fight!

[Ned]

Ned and Raw_Thought, ignore the dissenters. They're either yanking your chain, or fear admitting the truth, scared shitless of their complicity. They're in denial, in psychology considered the first stage of coping.

I am reading a book called "Climate Cover-Up -- The Crusade to Deny Global Warming" by James Hoggan. Published in 2009, it documents the orchestrated campaign to confuse people and make them doubt the scientists who tell them what is happening. It is a mind-blowing account of how the fossil fuel industry is systematically undermining the efforts of thousands of highly competent and conscientious scientists who are trying to warn the public. I highly recommend this book both for the deniers and to their confused victims.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Ned and Raw_Thought, ignore the dissenters. They're either yanking your chain, or fear admitting the truth, scared shitless of their complicity. They're in denial, in psychology considered the first stage of coping.

I am reading a book called "Climate Cover-Up -- The Crusade to Deny Global Warming" by James Hoggan. Published in 2009, it documents the orchestrated campaign to confuse people and make them doubt the scientists who tell them what is happening. It is a mind-blowing account of how the fossil fuel industry is systematically undermining the efforts of thousands of highly competent and conscientious scientists who are trying to warn the public. I highly recommend this book both for the deniers and to their confused victims.

Thanks for the recommendation, I really appreciate it, but I need no convincing. I now hate some of mankind so much for all their money grubbing, at the expense of all humans, including themselves, though they're too blind to see, that every time I read or watch reports on more of such things, It hurts me very deeply, and I just can't take anymore. I'm afraid it's going to kill me, literally. Of course I don't purposely avoid such encounters, but I've slowed down considerably looking for them.

Thanks again, though!

[Arising_uk]

You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground Arising. As to fuel economy and power per pound, it's cars that can't compete with bikes. That's acceleration that I'm talking about, not top end. On a straight away no car can out accelerate a sports bike, and get better gas mileage while doing it.

Not what I said nor what I was comparing, my car which seats seven returns pretty much the same or better mpg than a jap sports bike ridden which is down to the blob sitting on the outside which is all I said.

You obviously don't no crap about automotive's.

I know how to calculate the mpg between my car and my bike.

[Ned]

Ned and Raw_Thought, ignore the dissenters. They're either yanking your chain, or fear admitting the truth, scared shitless of their complicity. They're in denial, in psychology considered the first stage of coping.

I am reading a book called "Climate Cover-Up -- The Crusade to Deny Global Warming" by James Hoggan. Published in 2009, it documents the orchestrated campaign to confuse people and make them doubt the scientists who tell them what is happening. It is a mind-blowing account of how the fossil fuel industry is systematically undermining the efforts of thousands of highly competent and conscientious scientists who are trying to warn the public. I highly recommend this book both for the deniers and to their confused victims.

Thanks for the recommendation, I really appreciate it, but I need no convincing. I now hate some of mankind so much for all their money grubbing, at the expense of all humans, including themselves, though they're too blind to see.....

Extinction

Our ancestors made it,
out of the primordial ooze,
launched life, evolution, intelligence,
and here we are today: the apex of creation,
on the verge of self-annihilation.

Our big brains can solve
abstract mathematical equations,
design intricate and complex structures,
are stuck in the animal’s fear of starvation
and we think that greed is the only possible solution.

So we replace the simple task of living
with complicated games of domination,
squandering our resources in wars and destruction,
never realizing, even for a second:
we are digging the graves
of our own extinction.

[henry quirk]

The climate changes: it's a dynamic, on-going, system...it never was, and never will be, static.

The question is: how much is mankind driving or directing this change?

Certainly, mankind has an effect but my bet is we aren't (currently) the prime driver of climate change (which has an inertia and pattern predating mankind).

At best: our industry speeds up (slightly) what happens naturally (or, slows down [slightly] what happens naturally).

I'm thinkin' the boat we're in (sinkin' or not) would 'be' the boat we're in no matter what mankind did (or does).

So: I don't deny what is obvious...I can't, however, pin the tail (the blame) on the donkey (mankind).

Simply: there is no blame to lay...nature is just an amoral bitch...she doesn't work for us.

[SpheresOfBalance]

You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground Arising. As to fuel economy and power per pound, it's cars that can't compete with bikes. That's acceleration that I'm talking about, not top end. On a straight away no car can out accelerate a sports bike, and get better gas mileage while doing it.

Not what I said nor what I was comparing, my car which seats seven returns pretty much the same or better mpg than a jap sports bike ridden which is down to the blob sitting on the outside which is all I said.

You obviously don't no crap about automotive's.

I know how to calculate the mpg between my car and my bike.

My apologies if I misunderstood you, as your meaning is not necessarily contained in anyones response!!! Though it could be.

[SpheresOfBalance]

The climate changes: it's a dynamic, on-going, system...it never was, and never will be, static.

The question is: how much is mankind driving or directing this change?

Certainly, mankind has an effect but my bet is we aren't (currently) the prime driver of climate change (which has an inertia and pattern predating mankind).

At best: our industry speeds up (slightly) what happens naturally (or, slows down [slightly] what happens naturally).

I'm thinkin' the boat we're in (sinkin' or not) would 'be' the boat we're in no matter what mankind did (or does).

So: I don't deny what is obvious...I can't, however, pin the tail (the blame) on the donkey (mankind).

Simply: there is no blame to lay...nature is just an amoral bitch...she doesn't work for us.

Sure you fear being the culprit, and are in denial. Proud are you?

The statistics say otherwise. Maybe you have a problem counting to seven, some odd, billion and multiplying that by the number of cars, factories, coal firing power plants, etc, that are required to sustain such a number. It's easy to forget when you're in the woods, with shotgun in hand.

[raw_thought]

Ned and Raw_Thought, ignore the dissenters. They're either yanking your chain, or fear admitting the truth, scared shitless of their complicity. They're in denial, in psychology considered the first stage of coping.

Good job on the stuff you've posted by the way, you two. Thanks for fighting the good fight!

Nope! I said that 97% of climate scientists endorse AGW. I did not say 100%. I did say that EVERY scientific organization in the world of national and/or international reputation (NASA, Royal Society...well see the huge list I gave) endorses AGW and that is true.

[raw_thought]

We are lucky to have spheres here. He knows more about the climate then EVERY scientific organization in the world and more then 97% of climate scientists.

[SpheresOfBalance]

Ned and Raw_Thought, ignore the dissenters. They're either yanking your chain, or fear admitting the truth, scared shitless of their complicity. They're in denial, in psychology considered the first stage of coping.

Good job on the stuff you've posted by the way, you two. Thanks for fighting the good fight!

Nope! I said that 97% of climate scientists endorse AGW. I did not say 100%. I did say that EVERY scientific organization in the world of national and/or international reputation (NASA, Royal Society...well see the huge list I gave) endorses AGW and that is true.

What the hell are you talking about? I was thanking you for providing all that info. I'm on your side numb-nuts!

Fucking read will you??? Sheesh, some peoples kids!!!! Fight windmills much?