Philosophy Now Forum

Hello there, I dont live in the US of A, so I dont have much of an opinion upon your process nor politics.
I only read the last page of posts, and I just wished to reply to Gee, though of course, as in any open environment, I encourage you to inform or correct, if any of what I say within your earshot, you feel or think incorrect.

The first thought was about the African stats that 'claim' that most deaths are not caused by guns, I simply thought, 'registered' guns, or 'registered' Reason as to how and why that person was killed.
Oh, I happen of the think that anything of an explosive force, including land-mines, grenades, TNT-even etc is considered as a Fire-arm, therefore 'gun'.

Also what you said about the US of As' prison system and mental health 'institutions', I believe to be correct, however to add to this, something that might be generally considered by people, so no thought to mention, however I have never heard it mentioned, and not considering myself as general, I also have to point out, Population increase.
There are more people, of course there are going to be more people in jail.
And then i am sure if you measure the government officials and officers percentage lowering, I tend to think that over ALL we are doing better than if ever there were a before.
I heard something recently, now I am not sure if it was planetary of just my 'great' country, but the stats confirmed that murder had lowered in comparison of an 'all time low'.
This really cheered me up about the masses.

On a personal note concerning this thread progenitory post, I was wary of posting in this threads' topic elsewhere, due to what the media dubbed the poor individual who did such a frightening and unnatural act...,
(going to add to the theory of that which 'consists as natural' if it finds or builds the means in which to extinguish that their your MY entire 'chapter' of what would be thereon unable to be regarding as 'natural'),...
and the point I think might more apply to the general ilk of philosophers, Loner, I used to classify even class myself as such, to hear that 'tag' for the young 'man's' position- within a social understanding of classification, I think reckless, prejudiced and irresponsible. Dangerous.
It makes the world revert to thinking of or acting like the Sheriff of Marley's song and the Rambo first blood part 1diot.

Oh, and I dont honestly think it 'respect' that stops you if held by a gun point. But certainly fear, and we all have misunderstood the fear/respect paradoxical contradiction.
The only 'thing' that needs and can claim to need both fear and respect, would never hold a gun to our head.

It so funny, sort of, or threatening, someone today on the street, stopped me and asked me how to spell, 'amunition', I can see now clearly I got it wrong. Gladly.

Thanks

i can see a few people taking what has been taught to them since birth (i.e., not necessarily from parents, but country) (mine were never political of any sort ever) (just poor) (and i mean very poor) (not now, but then) about the country they grew up in seriously.

I suspect if we did not have gun laws in Australia, the country would be the same as the U S of A, probably worse. I think gun laws came into fruition here when the Tasmanian massacre happened. I am certain when people had to hand in their weapons, hundreds did not and I am certain there is a black market trade for them. It only stands to reason, if you say "No" people want it. Some people change when behind the wheel of a car as they do behind the barrel of a gun, (the main concern is do they know not to press the trigger). It was interesting the point made, "if you have a gun pointing at someone you have the power". I have grown up where there were no guns in my home, no members of the family hunters. I know the last thing my daughter would want for Christmas is a gun. Not surprising, a gun was never a commodity needed at any time, then or now.

reasonvemotion wrote:America must be an exceedingly dangerous country to live in.

no not at all, it teaches conflicting values, fucks up those who believe in them, and aside from that, everything else.

reasonvemotion wrote:I suspect if we did not have gun laws in Australia, the country would be the same as the U S of A, probably worse. I think gun laws came into fruition here when the Tasmanian massacre happened. I am certain when people had to hand in their weapons, hundreds did not and I am certain there is a black market trade for them. It only stands to reason, if you say "No" people want it.

I respect your reasoning and am glad that this is working for you and your countrymen.

reasonvemotion wrote: Some people change when behind the wheel of a car as they do behind the barrel of a gun, (the main concern is do they know not to press the trigger).

This is a mistake that most people make if they are not familiar with guns. Police often inform citizens that they should not try to use a gun if they don't know how, because when you pull a gun out, everything changes. Everything that frightened you and made you pull out the gun is no longer dangerous; instead, you are now the aggressor. This becomes very confusing and makes people hesitate. They don't want to kill anybody. Many a robber has sensed this hesitancy and taken the gun from the property owner, and used the gun on the owner--people get killed with their own guns.

It is much better to just put a bullet in their leg and call the police. Occasionally, one might have to put a bullet in the other leg, but that is rare--except in the movies. Threats will not work if you have any hesitancy, but you do not have to kill to stop. If, on the other hand, the robber has a gun, then it is kill or die.

reasonvemotion wrote: Not surprising, a gun was never a commodity needed at any time, then or now.

So I take it you do not have a son. I do. I knew the day that I brought him home from the hospital that he may one day be called to war. Should I teach him that guns are bad? Should I teach him to fear guns? Do I want him to hesitate when other people are shooting at him? No. I decided to teach him to use guns with respect and good judgment. He went to war. He came back whole; others did not. I can not regret my decision.

I do not support the NRA because I love guns; I support them because I have found no better solution than education.

Gee

i know alot of decent people who own guns myself. i wouldn't want to see something they love taken away from them because some damwits think they are evil.

Gee

I knew the day that I brought him home from the hospital that he may one day be called to war.

That is enterprising, but how could you be thinking of dying when holding a new born in your arms?


One question. Have you ever had the occasion to do as you say and hold a man/woman at arm's length, gun pointed at them? I suspect that would be a whole new scenario in reality.

bus2bondi wrote:i know alot of decent people who own guns myself. i wouldn't want to see something they love taken away from them because some damwits think they are evil.

Yeah I love heroin, LSD and poisonous substances, not to mention Nuclear Weapons. But none of those things actually kill people do they?

BTW - the owner of those guns was also a really decent person, now she is dead.

we the people are the state

shoot everyone

-Imp

I mean Police State.

The following gun statistics from the U.S. Bureau of Justice show that gun crime has actually fallen over the past 16 years. You people are like Chicken Little, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

Firearm crimes
as a percent of all
violent incidents
1993.... 11 %
1994.... 11
1995.... 10
1996.... 10
1997..... 9
1998..... 8
1999..... 7
2000..... 7
2001 ..... 9
2002 ..... 7
2003 ..... 7
2004 ..... 9
2006* ..... NA
2007 ..... 7
2008 ..... 7
2009 ..... 8

Source: Criminal Victimization, 2009.
*Victimization rate trends excludes NCVS estimates for 2006 because of methodological inconsistencies between the data for that year and the data for other years. Changes to the NCVS and their impact upon the survey's estimates in 2006 are discussed in the Criminal Victimization, 2006 Technical Notes.
Source: National Crime Victimization Survey

Anything more recent, i.e. 2010, 2011.

I did read that 68% of all homicides, guns were the weapon involved. Is that high?

And yet, suicide beat homicide 2 to 1 in the US and was up 60% worldwide the last time I checked Wiki's stats.

Gee

reasonvemotion wrote:
I did read that 68% of all homicides, guns were the weapon involved. Is that high?

Probably higher than bare hands.

bobevenson wrote:

reasonvemotion wrote:
I did read that 68% of all homicides, guns were the weapon involved. Is that high?

Probably higher than bare hands.

chuckle chuckle

thedoc wrote:

chaz wyman wrote:NB: There are 92k public schools in the US.

How many police officers do we have? Do we have them protect our schools or give tickets for 10 MPH over the speed limit? Or hunt down violent criminals?

It seems that the NRA's latest suggest would mean training and hiring at least one security officer for every school.
So let's say on a conservative estimate, 110,000 officers, and 110,000 new guns.
costing:
$35,000 x 110,000= $3.8 billion/per year.
You would also need a gun cabinet, and gun, security for the gun and a new office for the security, staff to run and maintain the scheme.ect.
So a minimum of $4.5billion per years.
Oh wait - 6 monthly psyche testing for the officers so they don't 'go native', and start shooting the kids.
You could add $500,000,000.
Would 6 months be regular enough? Are there that many psychs?