Philosophy Now Forum

thedoc wrote:What most people fail to understand is that Darwin's "survival of the fittest" is descriptive of reality, not prescriptive of how things must be. Darwin only describe what he observed, he didn't set out rules for the way nature must be.

Well put. See, I do agree with you on some things. Except that Darwin didn't coin the phrase 'survival of the fittest'. 'Natural selection' was Darwin's description.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Hardly 'bigotry' when you consider the history of your country towards its black population. You have also given away your general dislike of black Americans in several posts, so your pupils were perhaps being more than a little perceptive. I'm not unreasonable at all. '

You really don't understand bigotry at all, you are so blinded by your bigotry for Americans that you can't see anything else. The black kids where I taught were some of the most bigoted people I've ever met, but you completely don't understand bigotry at all. FYI, I don't dislike black people in general, only the ones who act like jerks, and then it's not for being black, just for acting like jerks. BTW I don't like white people, or orientals, or anyone else who act like jerks. But then you won't understand that, as you have decided to dislike a whole group of people, not because of anything they have done, but based on who they are and where they live. That is the very definition of bigotry. You are the most bigoted person on this forum.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

thedoc wrote:What most people fail to understand is that Darwin's "survival of the fittest" is descriptive of reality, not prescriptive of how things must be. Darwin only describe what he observed, he didn't set out rules for the way nature must be.

Well put. See, I do agree with you on some things. Except that Darwin didn't coin the phrase 'survival of the fittest'. 'Natural selection' was Darwin's description.

"Survival of the Fittest" grew out of Darwin's idea of "Natural Selection", but most people don't understand what "Survival of the Fittest" really means. It doesn't always mean the biggest and the strongest, or the fastest, it means the ones most able to reproduce in the given environment, and reproduction is the key to evolution.

It's nice to find that you actually read my posts and respond to them appropriately.

thedoc wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

thedoc wrote:What most people fail to understand is that Darwin's "survival of the fittest" is descriptive of reality, not prescriptive of how things must be. Darwin only describe what he observed, he didn't set out rules for the way nature must be.

Well put. See, I do agree with you on some things. Except that Darwin didn't coin the phrase 'survival of the fittest'. 'Natural selection' was Darwin's description.

"Survival of the Fittest" grew out of Darwin's idea of "Natural Selection", but most people don't understand what "Survival of the Fittest" really means. It doesn't always mean the biggest and the strongest, or the fastest, it means the ones most able to reproduce in the given environment, and reproduction is the key to evolution.

True. You have a good understanding of it.

thedoc wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Hardly 'bigotry' when you consider the history of your country towards its black population. You have also given away your general dislike of black Americans in several posts, so your pupils were perhaps being more than a little perceptive. I'm not unreasonable at all. '

You really don't understand bigotry at all, you are so blinded by your bigotry for Americans that you can't see anything else. The black kids where I taught were some of the most bigoted people I've ever met, but you completely don't understand bigotry at all. FYI, I don't dislike black people in general, only the ones who act like jerks, and then it's not for being black, just for acting like jerks. BTW I don't like white people, or orientals, or anyone else who act like jerks. But then you won't understand that, as you have decided to dislike a whole group of people, not because of anything they have done, but based on who they are and where they live. That is the very definition of bigotry. You are the most bigoted person on this forum.

It's not bigotry when it's justified. Look at the harm your country has done and continues to do. Americans who can see it for what it is are as common as gills on a carrot. A country is only the sum whole of its people, and more than the sum of its parts. Countries evolve their own identity over time, just as ant and termite hills do, just as large corporations do, and your country has an identity that is repugnant to me.
And btw, why do a far greater percentage of Americans 'act like jerks' than any other Nationality? What other Nationality rants about being the 'greatest country in the world'?

thedoc wrote:

Greta wrote: In truth, both atheism and theism have numerous members who do not lead examined lives - via dogma or apathy, respectively.

Exactly what is meant by "an examined life" or "an unexamined life", it is a term that is used on the assumption that everyone knows what it means, but I have found that definitions do not always match from one person to the next.

This definition works for me:

... one can make sense of Socrates’ claim if it is understood to mean something like – those who do not examine their lives (make conscious ethical decisions) fail to live a life that allows them to experience being fully human.

http://www.newphilosopher.com/articles/ ... lly-human/

This "examination", as far as I can tell in the modern age, is about maintaining a larger worldview, a broadened sphere of sympathy. To recognise that human culture today is far from the be-all-and-end-all, just one more phase of existence.

Eighty pages and Richard Dawkins and/or atheists have nothing to worry about.

Dubious wrote:Eighty pages and Richard Dawkins and/or atheists have nothing to worry about.

Sure, aside from the fact that they are ignorant to the truth.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: It's not bigotry when it's justified. Look at the harm your country has done and continues to do. Americans who can see it for what it is are as common as gills on a carrot. A country is only the sum whole of its people, and more than the sum of its parts. Countries evolve their own identity over time, just as ant and termite hills do, just as large corporations do, and your country has an identity that is repugnant to me.
And btw, why do a far greater percentage of Americans 'act like jerks' than any other Nationality? What other Nationality rants about being the 'greatest country in the world'?

No, Bigotry is bigotry justified or not, it doesn't matter, when you condem a whole group of people for what a few have done, it's bigotry.

BTW, only a small percentage of Americans travel abroad, so how would you know how the majority of Americans act, except that you are counting what everyone else says about Americans, justified or not. How many Americans have you actually met?

thedoc wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: It's not bigotry when it's justified. Look at the harm your country has done and continues to do. Americans who can see it for what it is are as common as gills on a carrot. A country is only the sum whole of its people, and more than the sum of its parts. Countries evolve their own identity over time, just as ant and termite hills do, just as large corporations do, and your country has an identity that is repugnant to me.
And btw, why do a far greater percentage of Americans 'act like jerks' than any other Nationality? What other Nationality rants about being the 'greatest country in the world'?

No, Bigotry is bigotry justified or not, it doesn't matter, when you condem a whole group of people for what a few have done, it's bigotry.

BTW, only a small percentage of Americans travel abroad, so how would you know how the majority of Americans act, except that you are counting what everyone else says about Americans, justified or not. How many Americans have you actually met?

You are talking crap. It's impossible not to do it. You just did it yourself when you said those black youths were 'bigoted' and that you don't dislike 'black people in general'. The media does it every time it writes anything political. 'Americans are angry'. 'Americans want change'. 'Americans are paranoid'. 'Low-brow Americans give their children ridiculous names'. 'Americans this, Americans that..' The British 'stiff upper lip'. 'Chinese work hard.' 'Chinese are cruel because they condone live dog-skinning and other atrocities on animals.' 'Russians like Putin.' 'The French are sophisticated and cultured.' 'The Germans are efficient and record everything.' 'Germans are arrogant and don't like the way Americans are false and smile all the time.' etc. etc . etc... Did you know that Wal-mart failed in Germany? It failed because Germans hated the American-style fakery and 'have a nice day mams' that Americans carry on with. Is it 'bigotry' to say that? I'm sure there might be some Germans who loved it, but certainly not enough of them to stop it from failing. The facts speak for themselves. Why are American tourists so unpopular? Because they bellow obnoxiously in case anyone doesn't realise they are American. You are full of it if you claim to have never been aware of any kind of cultural or national identity. Do you think Canadians are the same as Americans? What is your impression when you think about them? And don't bother lying. Why are Canadian cities so much safer than American ones? Why do they have a much lower murder and violent crime rate? Like the US, Canada has high gun ownership, so why is its murder rate relatively low?
The only way we are going to get rid of National identity is when there are no longer any Nations, and even then I'm sure humans will manage to acquire unique group identities and cultures. It's just the way we are.
And it's not just 'a handful' of Americans who idolise the military and call all of its military thugs 'heroes'. It's not just 'a handful' of Americans butchering the language. It's not just 'a handful' of Americans who are warmongers. There must be a hell of a lot of them because the US is ALWAYS attacking someone! When you get enough people in a group behaving in a certain way, it creates a collective identity. Of course there are going to be exceptions, just as there are probably selfish ants and termites that want to go off and do their own thing.

attofishpi wrote:

Dubious wrote:Eighty pages and Richard Dawkins and/or atheists have nothing to worry about.

Sure, aside from the fact that they are ignorant to the truth.

One of the differences between atheists and theists is that for the former Truth, or near probability, is understood as discovery while the latter identifies truth as edict, being "told" what it is. This was the case for 1500 years until finally the truth edicts of theism began to implode. It was only then that unscriptured Truth began to emerge. So if RD & Company are ignorant of the truth as you claim, imagine what it was like for theism. It wasn't by accident that its rise coincided with the Dark Ages.

The injunctions of theism in the West are turning to dust...mostly by indifference, the most powerful leveler of all.

thedoc wrote: BTW, only a small percentage of Americans travel abroad,

A big part of what's wrong with them. The lack of empathy for people from other countries, the 'them and us' mentality, the paranoia. It explains a lot.

Dubious wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

Dubious wrote:Eighty pages and Richard Dawkins and/or atheists have nothing to worry about.

Sure, aside from the fact that they are ignorant to the truth.

One of the differences between atheists and theists is that for the former Truth, or near probability, is understood as discovery while the latter identifies truth as edict, being "told" what it is. This was the case for 1500 years until finally the truth edicts of theism began to implode. It was only then that unscriptured Truth began to emerge. So if RD & Company are ignorant of the truth as you claim, imagine what it was like for theism. It wasn't by accident that its rise coincided with the Dark Ages.

The injunctions of theism in the West are turning to dust...mostly by indifference, the most powerful leveler of all.

God or at least 'God' is probable in consideration of technological advances coupled with the progression of entropy.

Lacewing wrote:But you're not usually talking about "acts" are you -- rather, you try to label and judge individual values and morals based solely on belief or lack of it. So why are you obsessed with doing that?

It's because he believes that he can demonstrate the existence of objective morality and from that, his god. The argument he would like us to accept goes something like this:
We can describe acts as objectively good.
Atheism can only describe acts as subjectively good.
Therefore Atheism is wrong and God exists.

Immanuel Can wrote:But as an Atheist, you don't believe in "bad."

I rest my case. Mr Can believes there is only "good" and "bad" and that it's a numbers game. He keeps banging on about the innocent people killed by "Atheists", and because he believes this is greater than the number of innocent people killed by "Theists", this somehow absolves "Theism". Of course, this is a theme in christianity, but according to that logic, it isn't Jesus who saves, but Josef Stalin.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

thedoc wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: It's not bigotry when it's justified. Look at the harm your country has done and continues to do. Americans who can see it for what it is are as common as gills on a carrot. A country is only the sum whole of its people, and more than the sum of its parts. Countries evolve their own identity over time, just as ant and termite hills do, just as large corporations do, and your country has an identity that is repugnant to me.
And btw, why do a far greater percentage of Americans 'act like jerks' than any other Nationality? What other Nationality rants about being the 'greatest country in the world'?

No, Bigotry is bigotry justified or not, it doesn't matter, when you condem a whole group of people for what a few have done, it's bigotry.

BTW, only a small percentage of Americans travel abroad, so how would you know how the majority of Americans act, except that you are counting what everyone else says about Americans, justified or not. How many Americans have you actually met?

You are talking crap. It's impossible not to do it. You just did it yourself when you said those black youths were 'bigoted' and that you don't dislike 'black people in general'. The media does it every time it writes anything political. 'Americans are angry'. 'Americans want change'. 'Americans are paranoid'. 'Low-brow Americans give their children ridiculous names'. 'Americans this, Americans that..' The British 'stiff upper lip'. 'Chinese work hard.' 'Chinese are cruel because they condone live dog-skinning and other atrocities on animals.' 'Russians like Putin.' 'The French are sophisticated and cultured.' 'The Germans are efficient and record everything.' 'Germans are arrogant and don't like the way Americans are false and smile all the time.' etc. etc . etc... Did you know that Wal-mart failed in Germany? It failed because Germans hated the American-style fakery and 'have a nice day mams' that Americans carry on with. Is it 'bigotry' to say that? I'm sure there might be some Germans who loved it, but certainly not enough of them to stop it from failing. The facts speak for themselves. Why are American tourists so unpopular? Because they bellow obnoxiously in case anyone doesn't realise they are American. You are full of it if you claim to have never been aware of any kind of cultural or national identity. Do you think Canadians are the same as Americans? What is your impression when you think about them? And don't bother lying. Why are Canadian cities so much safer than American ones? Why do they have a much lower murder and violent crime rate? Like the US, Canada has high gun ownership, so why is its murder rate relatively low?
The only way we are going to get rid of National identity is when there are no longer any Nations, and even then I'm sure humans will manage to acquire unique group identities and cultures. It's just the way we are.
And it's not just 'a handful' of Americans who idolise the military and call all of its military thugs 'heroes'. It's not just 'a handful' of Americans butchering the language. It's not just 'a handful' of Americans who are warmongers. There must be a hell of a lot of them because the US is ALWAYS attacking someone! When you get enough people in a group behaving in a certain way, it creates a collective identity. Of course there are going to be exceptions, just as there are probably selfish ants and termites that want to go off and do their own thing.

Do you feel better now, after your rant, your expression of your feelings certainly explains a lot, doesn't justify anything, just explains.