if that is relativism then also sob would be blind man too according to his stories about all men sharing and learning from their findings about the elephant, and we all too and that guy who saw six blind men trying to define the elephant? surely that story is internally coherent too like many other stories, if the story tells that the guy who saw those six blind men and an elephant was a blind man too with the elephant, like the story says. but, was there an elephant at all, or those six blind men? sorry my english.zinnat13 wrote: six blind men try to define the elephant by touching it. One touches its foot, one grabs the trunk, one takes hold of tail, etc. later they explain the elephant total differently.
SOB, this is relativism. They all explain it differently, yet, it cannot be said that they are totally wrong. They all are right in their observation, and thus perception, but, only to the extent of their capability of realization. Sometimes, even experiences are misleading.
Hence, relativism is acceptance of two notions.
What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
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Mark Question
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:20 am
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
lancek4 wrote:Some would say: that is a contradiction. Within 'truth is' is an assumption of human potential defined along particular lines.MJA wrote:..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!
How you ask:
Simply remove any measure, uncertainty or doubt.
Truth is All that remains.
Truth is
=
In order for there to be a knowing of such 'truth is', a concordant 'doubt' must exist: thus togther they must be True - yet this too must be doubted. Hence the contradiction which find itself resolved by an Absolute - which cannot be except in reflection of the potential for relativity. Hence the asserted position of 'god': the Absolute Object at which we cease to be human, a purpose by which I am negated for my own comfort.
God is only another name for absolutely and infinitely everything, and that includes you and me.
There is comfort in truth as there is in One.
=
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
Because we are human (what we know as human), even if there would be a future where the maxim of such as truth were realized in humanity, it too would be contested, in ways of which we can have no concept. Only now do we have such a 'hoped for obvious reconciliation' of our present situation, a future for our present. But such a future is only a present solutuion for how we come upon reality in knowledge; in the actual future, they will have another one that makes no sense to us now.
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
You're talking about everybody getting along, which is awesome, but it has no bearing on truth. Truth is all about resolving conflict. And there is a difference in saying that: "it is true that everyone has their own beliefs as to whats true," and: "it is true that despite everyone's conflicting ideas of whats true, all are equally true." The former is true, while the latter is a falsehood!..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
On this we agree! Truth just simply IS. It is all that IS without human interpretation.MJA wrote:..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!
How you ask:
Simply remove any measure, uncertainty or doubt.
Truth is All that remains.
Truth is
=
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
When it comes to truth I have no conflicting ideas or beliefs, do you?SpheresOfBalance wrote:You're talking about everybody getting along, which is awesome, but it has no bearing on truth. Truth is all about resolving conflict. And there is a difference in saying that: "it is true that everyone has their own beliefs as to whats true," and: "it is true that despite everyone's conflicting ideas of whats true, all are equally true." The former is true, while the latter is a falsehood!..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!
And there is nothing more or less true, former or latter than "equally true".
Equality is freedom,
The truth that will set you free.
=
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
lancek4 wrote:Some would say: that is a contradiction. Within 'truth is' is an assumption of human potential defined along particular lines.MJA wrote:..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!
How you ask:
Simply remove any measure, uncertainty or doubt.
Truth is All that remains.
Truth is
=
Please explain how you see this is a contradiction as I see no "assumption of human potential defined along particular lines," in the statement "Truth Is."
In order for there to be a knowing of such 'truth is', a concordant 'doubt' must exist: thus togther they must be True - yet this too must be doubted.
You say an "agreeing doubt; a harmonious doubt." "Doubt" implies potential disagreement. It's like saying a black white or a white black.
Hence the contradiction which find itself resolved by an Absolute - which cannot be except in reflection of the potential for relativity.
It sounds like you're trying to say that there can be no black because there is a white; there can be no up because there's a down.
Hence the asserted position of 'god': the Absolute Object at which we cease to be human, a purpose by which I am negated for my own comfort.
Why you think even for a second, that absolute has anything what so ever to do with a god is beyond me. Sounds like presumption based upon archaic belief to me.
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
Not a very smart argument. OK, since you want to pretend that you're not very intelligent, I'll play along.MJA wrote:When it comes to truth I have no conflicting ideas or beliefs, do you?SpheresOfBalance wrote:You're talking about everybody getting along, which is awesome, but it has no bearing on truth. Truth is all about resolving conflict. And there is a difference in saying that: "it is true that everyone has their own beliefs as to whats true," and: "it is true that despite everyone's conflicting ideas of whats true, all are equally true." The former is true, while the latter is a falsehood!..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!
And there is nothing more or less true, former or latter than "equally true".
Equality is freedom,
The truth that will set you free.
=
A hypothetical:
You say that it's 'true' that you and your loved ones should be allowed to live a loving peaceful life, keeping to yourself, in your own neck of the woods. The killer says that it's 'true' that they should be allowed to sneak into your neck of the woods and rape and kill your entire family, and they do. Now you and your family are dead, where is the 'truth' amongst both sides 'belief' of the 'truth?'
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
I am human and interpret truth: isSpheresOfBalance wrote:On this we agree! Truth just simply IS. It is all that IS without human interpretation.MJA wrote:..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!
How you ask:
Simply remove any measure, uncertainty or doubt.
Truth is All that remains.
Truth is
=
=
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
Sorry MQ but you must have eaten a funny mushroom, because I have never related such a story, That's sanjays story.Mark Question wrote:sob would be blind man too according to his stories about all men sharing and learning from their findings about the elephant
I hope it's just the translation issue!
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
You've contradicted yourself because you said it was 'realized,' which is to grasp or understand (1st def) and cannot truthfully make this assertion as a definite truth, only that of possibility.lancek4 wrote:Because we are human (what we know as human), even if there would be a future where the maxim of such as truth were realized in humanity, it too would be contested, in ways of which we can have no concept. Only now do we have such a 'hoped for obvious reconciliation' of our present situation, a future for our present. But such a future is only a present solutuion for how we come upon reality in knowledge; in the actual future, they will have another one that makes no sense to us now.
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!
MJA wrote:How you ask:
Simply remove any measure, uncertainty or doubt.
Truth is All that remains.
Truth is
=
SpheresOfBalance wrote:On this we agree! Truth just simply IS. It is all that IS without human interpretation.
You do not interpret that truth is, It is by definition! You may interpret that you are an amphibious frog, but in fact you are a human by definition! The concept of truth was designed to negate ambiguity due to multiple interpretations of a single thing. Creating the concept of truth simply said that despite these multiple versions of truth we should all agree that there can only be one that actually exists. You are not both a frog and a human at the same time. Since one has to be the actual fact and thus gives way to that one version as absolutely true, truth merely indicates that if we try hard enough we can come to the understanding of which version actually exists in reality.MJA wrote:I am human and interpret truth: is
=
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!MJA wrote:How you ask:
Simply remove any measure, uncertainty or doubt.
Truth is All that remains.
Truth is
=SpheresOfBalance wrote:On this we agree! Truth just simply IS. It is all that IS without human interpretation.You do not interpret that truth is, It is by definition! You may interpret that you are an amphibious frog, but in fact you are a human by definition! The concept of truth was designed to negate ambiguity due to multiple interpretations of a single thing. Creating the concept of truth simply said that despite these multiple versions of truth we should all agree that there can only be one that actually exists. You are not both a frog and a human at the same time. Since one has to be the actual fact and thus gives way to that one version as absolutely true, truth merely indicates that if we try hard enough we can come to the understanding of which version actually exists in reality.MJA wrote:I am human and interpret truth: is
=
Reality:
Truth is One as I am One.
One truth,
True One,
=
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SpheresOfBalance
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
- Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
I see that you fear to address my 'hypothetical' because it shall unmask your absurdity! Coward!MJA wrote:SpheresOfBalance wrote:..nameless.. wrote:Gentlemen...
On 'Truth';
The entire Universe (only is One!), every moment of existence, constitutes the entirety of Existence.
Existence is all inclusive!
I would equate the entirety of existence, with Reality Realityh is all incusive!
'Truth' must, being 'based' on the Universe/Reality, must also be all inclusive!
Thus, everything exists, everything is Real, everything is True!
Every unique Perspective, every moment of existence, perceives a true feature of the complete Truth/Reality...
"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!" - Book of Fudd
All inclusive!
It's ALL True!
We no longer need to reinvent the wheel in questioning anything's Reality or Existence or Truth! We can accept that it is True, and, if we are interested, find out 'how' it's True!
That would be a win/win/win... rather than a battle of egos. All would have 'greater Perspective' of Reality/Truth/'Self!'!MJA wrote:How you ask:
Simply remove any measure, uncertainty or doubt.
Truth is All that remains.
Truth is
=SpheresOfBalance wrote:On this we agree! Truth just simply IS. It is all that IS without human interpretation.You do not interpret that truth is, It is by definition! You may interpret that you are an amphibious frog, but in fact you are a human by definition! The concept of truth was designed to negate ambiguity due to multiple interpretations of a single thing. Creating the concept of truth simply said that despite these multiple versions of truth we should all agree that there can only be one that actually exists. You are not both a frog and a human at the same time. Since one has to be the actual fact and thus gives way to that one version as absolutely true, truth merely indicates that if we try hard enough we can come to the understanding of which version actually exists in reality.MJA wrote:I am human and interpret truth: is
=
Reality:
Truth is One as I am One.
One truth,
True One,
=
Re: What's stopping us from seeing the truth?
I have used 'realize' as meaning: to make real. When one 'realizes' as Truth, it is that which has been 'supplied' that the individual may may have reality.
For example: Chaz's 'atheism'. He says it has 'no content' in that as a poisition it is simply a negation of that which has "content', namely, theism.
Yet one cannot exist without the other, together they supply a 'true' reality: the condition of knowledge.
Thus I have said that to say 'truth is' is to indicate a particular condition of knowledge that is our moment. Only through the preceding posts (in this case) can more than one of us 'agree' what it means
It is otherwise, and upon subsequent analysis, a platitude, an empty statement, because it only gains it meaning thru the discourse surrounding. If I posit that it indicates a 'universal' or 'static' condition which applies at all times, like it is an 'actual' condition, it is because we ourselves are denying our ability to come upon a 'true' reality, a 'true' meaning in 'actual' terms between us, and likewise are asserting the reality of the platitude as if such thing actually is not a truism or merely a saying that expresses fultilty of our endeavor.
For example: Chaz's 'atheism'. He says it has 'no content' in that as a poisition it is simply a negation of that which has "content', namely, theism.
Yet one cannot exist without the other, together they supply a 'true' reality: the condition of knowledge.
Thus I have said that to say 'truth is' is to indicate a particular condition of knowledge that is our moment. Only through the preceding posts (in this case) can more than one of us 'agree' what it means
It is otherwise, and upon subsequent analysis, a platitude, an empty statement, because it only gains it meaning thru the discourse surrounding. If I posit that it indicates a 'universal' or 'static' condition which applies at all times, like it is an 'actual' condition, it is because we ourselves are denying our ability to come upon a 'true' reality, a 'true' meaning in 'actual' terms between us, and likewise are asserting the reality of the platitude as if such thing actually is not a truism or merely a saying that expresses fultilty of our endeavor.