Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:05 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:36 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:50 pm Let's suppose the election wasn't rigged. Let's suppose that.

However, just as a speculation, if an American election were ever rigged, let's see what would follow.

It would follow that somebody discovered they could rig an American election to produce the results they wanted. They could put a candidate of any quality or character up for office, and get him elected, so long as it was in the name of one of the major parties. They would know they could arrange irregularities with ballots and machine tallies that could produce any result they wished...at least within the extremity of plausibility. They could stop an election in process, and reverse results. The press could be counted on to fall into line. The media's oligarchs would support it. Millionaires could be induced to flush resources into the process...

Moreover, they would know that they could avoid any consequences. They would know they didn't have to fear a judicial reaction or a legal investigation of what they had done. And they would also know now that they no longer had any reason to fear even the President of the United States himself objecting to their interventions. And they would know that the reaction from the electorate would be sufficiently tepid, and Americans would continue to accept any results there were dealt. And, of course, the "winners" would immediately come to their aid and cover up any wrongdoing for them.

But those "winners" thereafter would also have real reason to fear them. They would know that the only reason they "won" was because these backstage operators, these manipulators, were on their side. They would know that, thereafter, if any politician gets unruly relative to the goals demanded of them, the operators can present their services to another cause or another candidate, with the same results. So the party thus elected would have to be very cowed, very tame in the hands of the operators.

In short, if somebody could do that, they would be the new masters of the America.

So let's hope that all didn't happen.

Mate, not sure where consideration of Occam's Razor is more appropriate.

Well, lookee, lookee. What's going on here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXXctkfMb7k

Did the Democrats think the Leftist extremists they supported would fall tamely into line behind them when they had power?

Perhaps not, eh?

Interesting. I read that the Proud Boys have turned against Trump as well. What is going on, I haven't a clue.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:17 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:05 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:36 am

Mate, not sure where consideration of Occam's Razor is more appropriate.

Well, lookee, lookee. What's going on here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXXctkfMb7k

Did the Democrats think the Leftist extremists they supported would fall tamely into line behind them when they had power?

Perhaps not, eh?

Interesting. I read that the Proud Boys have turned against Trump as well. What is going on, I haven't a clue.

a lotta folks were bettin' ORANGE MAN had some *ahem* trump card he was gonna pull out at the last minute to regain the Big Chair before the houseplant's inauguration...when he quietly departed the more rabid felt betrayed

interestingly, many anti-ORANGE MAN folks reacted similarly...these were the ones who predicted ORANGE MAN wouldn't leave the Big Chair voluntarily...he's a dictator! they said, he'll have to be forced out, hauled away in handcuffs!

he deprived them of their blood in the water moment

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:33 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:17 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:05 am

Well, lookee, lookee. What's going on here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXXctkfMb7k

Did the Democrats think the Leftist extremists they supported would fall tamely into line behind them when they had power?

Perhaps not, eh?

Interesting. I read that the Proud Boys have turned against Trump as well. What is going on, I haven't a clue.

a lotta folks were bettin' ORANGE MAN had some *ahem* trump card he was gonna pull out at the last minute to regain the Big Chair before the houseplant's inauguration...when he quietly departed the more rabid felt betrayed

interestingly, many anti-ORANGE MAN folks reacted similarly...these were the ones who predicted ORANGE MAN wouldn't leave the Big Chair voluntarily...he's a dictator! they said, he'll have to be forced out, hauled away in handcuffs!

he deprived them of their blood in the water moment

Interesting. I know you've referred to Trump as your "Orange hand grenade" or something like that. However, between the Capitol being stormed and all the violent riots that happened over the summer, I'll be happier if we can all just find peace somewhere along the line. I surrender. This is getting old. Wish the extremists would just turn it off for a while.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:49 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:33 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:17 am

Interesting. I read that the Proud Boys have turned against Trump as well. What is going on, I haven't a clue.

a lotta folks were bettin' ORANGE MAN had some *ahem* trump card he was gonna pull out at the last minute to regain the Big Chair before the houseplant's inauguration...when he quietly departed the more rabid felt betrayed

interestingly, many anti-ORANGE MAN folks reacted similarly...these were the ones who predicted ORANGE MAN wouldn't leave the Big Chair voluntarily...he's a dictator! they said, he'll have to be forced out, hauled away in handcuffs!

he deprived them of their blood in the water moment

Interesting. I know you've referred to Trump as your "Orange hand grenade" or something like that. However, between the Capitol being stormed and all the violent riots that happened over the summer, I'll be happier if we can all just find peace somewhere along the line. I surrender. This is getting old. Wish the extremists would just turn it off for a while.

I hear you

unfortunately, we're in for a whole new iteration of extreme over the next year

the houseplant's election, as Mannie's link illustrates, was not the panacea some thought it would be...thing is: the houseplant can't possibly make good on all his promises...the rabid on his side of the aisle will not take kindly to that

expect more mostly peaceful protests

expect too deep and wide civil disobedience from folks too old and wise to march in the streets


Orange hand grenade

yep...I'm gonna miss him...there was no greater intentional instrument for chaos than ORANGE MAN...the houseplant may raise a little unintended hell, but it just won't be the same

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:17 am Interesting. I read that the Proud Boys have turned against Trump as well. What is going on, I haven't a clue.

The revolutionaries have their own agenda. When their side wins, they don't expect to end up in the back seat. They expect to drive.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:30 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:17 am Interesting. I read that the Proud Boys have turned against Trump as well. What is going on, I haven't a clue.

The revolutionaries have their own agenda. When their side wins, they don't expect to end up in the back seat. They expect to drive.

Craziness.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:49 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:33 am
expect more mostly peaceful protests

expect too deep and wide civil disobedience from folks too old and wise to march in the streets

The people who put Biden in power didn't choose him for his wit, his commanding personality, his capacious knowledge, his rhetorical or political skills, or his moral leadership. That's obvious. They chose him for his docility, flaccidity, pliability, manipulability -- and "removability," if necessary. That's also obvious.

But they haven't seen what's at their back yet. The extremists behind them are still earnest about making a name for themselves and taking power. However, most of them are also not good a ruling, at doing creative things, or at problem solving. No Marxist ever is. What they are good at is hating, revolting and overthrowing the existing order. With somebody to hate and resist, some "oppressor," they look strong, morally-earnest and worthy of support; the minute they get in charge, they look stupid, incompetent, corrupt and incapable. So they're going to keep revolting, because it's all they are really good at doing. They're terrible at being supportive of a regime, or of arranging anything constructive, efficient, cost-effective, sustainable, reasonable or workable themselves. So they don't want to do that.

They're only good in opposition.

So I agree. I expect continued unrest from the radical Left...this time, crabbing that the tepid left represented by Biden and cronies is "not moving fast enough," or "not taking us seriously," or "betraying the revolution." The tepid left with throw them some crumbs, at which they will react with ingratitude and anger. Then they'll declare that things are worse than they imagined, the new administration is now evil, and they'll continue to revolt.

I do expect trouble. But I suspect that the worst of it will come from the people that the tepid left thought they had rallied to their side. Expect more cop-hating, more race riots, more Antifa activities, more takeovers and arsons, more inflated rhetoric and and administration incapable of confronting it effectively.

I think that's the future now. Sorry to say it.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:56 am Craziness.

Absolutely.

But when one opens Pandora's Box, it's not liberation that springs out.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:03 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:56 am Craziness.

Absolutely.

But when one opens Pandora's Box, it's not liberation that springs out.

What do you mean by "Pandora's Box"?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:02 am The people who put Biden in power didn't choose him for his wit, his commanding personality, his capacious knowledge, his rhetorical or political skills, or his moral leadership. That's obvious. They chose him for his docility, flaccidity, pliability, manipulability -- and "removability," if necessary. That's also obvious.

The people who put BIDEN in power, were the hue of the brown people (people tend to call them BLACK).

They went out in droves to VOTE and saved the US people from having to put up with 4 more years of the divisive clown that is TRUMP.

Biden's initial speech (last year) where it was clear that he had won - was THE most lucid, intelligent speech I have PERSONALLY every heard from a (soon to be) president - AND without prompters, or pieces notes written down. Very impressed.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:51 am

Looks like the election really isn't over for everyone.

I think that's the future now. Sorry to say it.

me, I'm encouraged by it...a dose of ORANGE ipecac syrup is kickin' in (again) and all manner of nasty stuff is bein' vomited up for inspection and flushin'...it's a painful, violent process but a good one...even the most spineless and lackluster can't ignore it...I say this honestly: '21 is gonna be fun

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:45 pm I think that's the future now. Sorry to say it.

me, I'm encouraged by it...a dose of ORANGE ipecac syrup is kickin' in (again) and all manner of nasty stuff is bein' vomited up for inspection and flushin'...it's a painful, violent process but a good one...even the most spineless and lackluster can't ignore it...I say this honestly: '21 is gonna be fun

only real danger is the one always on the table: new masters takin' the place of old masters

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:11 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:03 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:56 am Craziness.

Absolutely.

But when one opens Pandora's Box, it's not liberation that springs out.

What do you mean by "Pandora's Box"?

It's an old legend. It stands for "crossing a line," or "starting something you can't finish," among other things.