Philosophy Now Forum

:::: sigh ::::

No one can say I don’t try!

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:50 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:11 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:49 am

The shifting of power! As I have asked of others, would the United States tolerate a Russian military base on the Canadian America border without invading the next day? The point to is Russia is not alone. Most of the world has had quite enough of the American empire and is working to undermine that power as we speak. America has not been a kind master.

Regardless of whatever trespasses America committed in the past, right now most of the world is much more concerned with Russia and their expressed intention of cleansing the Ukraine of all Nazis as pretext to claim it all for themselves. Seems weird that after all these years, the Russians still have a huge Nazi complex using it to justify any action against anyone in their way.

How god-awful pathetic!

You've been reading too much corporate literature/read propaganda. The west should remember who saved their asses in World War two, a little respect would be nice.

Why? They also helped start WWII. Patton was right about the Russians.

In any event, Germany would have been defeated even without the Soviets. It would undoubtedly have taken longer with many more causalities on the Western side, but eventually Germany would have been forced to give up. As Albert Speer himself observed when the Americans entered the war that Germany was doomed - not because of their armies but because of their resources and overwhelming industrial power which also supported the Russians once they became allies. In short, the Russians never saved the West. What they did was expedite the defeat at great cost to themselves; but Stalin, like Hitler were never concerned how many lives it took to accomplish their ambitions.

Jonathan Bowden proposed what is unthinkable thought for we ‘free’ men who soar on such unconstrained wings up near God’s abode: that England should have negotiated with Germany and thus have perhaps maintained its empire — not have utterly expended itself.

Sadly there’d be no McDonalds in Europe. A significant cost but there you have it.

It would still have been possible to resist German power (in succeeding years) since few seemed to welcome it, but Europe would have been saved an extremely destructive war.

What would have resulted? Even god scratches his (metaphorical) head …

Soviet Russia could then have been annihilated and ‘remodeled’ to serve European power in a concerted fashion — in the long run a better route really.

I recognize this is a rather unorthodox idea but it is intriguing.

Don’t blame me, Jonathan Bowden — the unholy bastard — thought it up! He’s dead now and, if the reports are true, is being fed peeled grapes by nymphs in Valhalla.

I’ve yet to verify this. Just reporting what comes down the pike.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:08 am Jonathan Bowden proposed what is unthinkable thought for we ‘free’ men who soar on such unconstrained wings up near God’s abode: that England should have negotiated with Germany and thus have perhaps maintained its empire — not have utterly expended itself.

Sadly there’d be no McDonalds in Europe. A significant cost but there you have it.

It would still have been possible to resist German power (in succeeding years) since few seemed to welcome it, but Europe would have been saved an extremely destructive war.

What would have resulted? Even god scratches his (metaphorical) head …

Soviet Russia could then have been annihilated and ‘remodeled’ to serve European power in a concerted fashion — in the long run a better route really.

I recognize this is a rather unorthodox idea but it is intriguing.

Don’t blame me, Jonathan Bowden — the unholy bastard — thought it up! He’s dead now and, if the reports are true, is being fed peeled grapes by nymphs in Valhalla.

I’ve yet to verify this. Just reporting what comes down the pike.

Like it or not, what came out of WWII was the dissolution of the British Empire. Now it's time for the US to come down from the clouds. It would be nice if our leaders would do so without getting us all into a world war.

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:01 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:50 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:11 am

Regardless of whatever trespasses America committed in the past, right now most of the world is much more concerned with Russia and their expressed intention of cleansing the Ukraine of all Nazis as pretext to claim it all for themselves. Seems weird that after all these years, the Russians still have a huge Nazi complex using it to justify any action against anyone in their way.

How god-awful pathetic!

You've been reading too much corporate literature/read propaganda. The west should remember who saved their asses in World War two, a little respect would be nice.

Why? They also helped start WWII. Patton was right about the Russians.

In any event, Germany would have been defeated even without the Soviets. It would undoubtedly have taken longer with many more causalities on the Western side, but eventually Germany would have been forced to give up. As Albert Speer himself observed when the Americans entered the war that Germany was doomed - not because of their armies but because of their resources and overwhelming industrial power which also supported the Russians once they became allies. In short, the Russians never saved the West. What they did was expedite the defeat at great cost to themselves; but Stalin, like Hitler were never concerned how many lives it took to accomplish their ambitions.

Nevertheless, at the time the allies were shitting themselves worried that Russia would fall, they were not as confident as you are in your hindsight. The fact remains Russia crushed the monster Nazi war machine chased them through Europe back to Berlin and defeated them on their home ground. The west owes Russia and its people its respect, not that it will ever be forthcoming. Patton might have been a great strategist but he certainly was not an intellectual. Of course, war itself is not exactly an intellectual proposition. If Russia had fallen to the Nazi war machine, the natural resources available to Germany's war machine; would have exceeded that of American resources to its industrialization capabilities, which is why the Germans invaded.

popeye1945 wrote:

Nevertheless, at the time the allies were shitting themselves worried that Russia would fall, they were not as confident as you are in your hindsight. The fact remains Russia crushed the monster Nazi war machine chased them through Europe back to Berlin and defeated them on their home ground. The west owes Russia and its people its respect, not that it will ever be forthcoming. Patton might have been a great strategist but he certainly was not an intellectual. Of course, war itself is not exactly an intellectual proposition. If Russia had fallen to the Nazi war machine, the natural resources available to Germany's war machine would have exceeded that of American resources to its industrialization capabilities.

When World War II ended in 1945 few doubted that the victor's laurels belonged mainly to Joseph Stalin. Under his leadership the Soviet Union had just won the war of the century, and that victory was closely identified with his role as the country's supreme commander.

This  current war in Ukraine will show that there is no way Putin will give in or back down.

I believe Nato will recognise that this war is no longer effective for them and will decide to recant in order to avoid total destruction.

America is on downhill slide, the corruption in the country is huge, but it will still retain the title of the most powerful country in the world and the price it will pay is the absolute corruption of the country internally.

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:15 am popeye1945 wrote:

Nevertheless, at the time the allies were shitting themselves worried that Russia would fall, they were not as confident as you are in your hindsight. The fact remains Russia crushed the monster Nazi war machine chased them through Europe back to Berlin and defeated them on their home ground. The west owes Russia and its people its respect, not that it will ever be forthcoming. Patton might have been a great strategist but he certainly was not an intellectual. Of course, war itself is not exactly an intellectual proposition. If Russia had fallen to the Nazi war machine, the natural resources available to Germany's war machine would have exceeded that of American resources to its industrialization capabilities.

When World War II ended in 1945 few doubted that the victor's laurels belonged mainly to Joseph Stalin. Under his leadership the Soviet Union had just won the war of the century, and that victory was closely identified with his role as the country's supreme commander.

This current war in Ukraine will show that there is no way Putin will give in or back down.

I believe Nato will recognize that this war is no longer effective for them and will decide to recant in order to avoid total destruction.

America is on a downhill slide, the corruption in the country is huge, but it will still retain the title of the most powerful country in the world and the price it will pay is the absolute corruption of the country internally.

Reason,

We are birds of a feather on your evaluation --- excellent!! With but one exception, America will not remain the most power force in the world that title will belong to the BRICS - Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa and whoever joins them in future. Of course, as an individual country America will hold that position for some time, but I think America's decline will accelerate dramatically.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:51 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:01 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:50 am

You've been reading too much corporate literature/read propaganda. The west should remember who saved their asses in World War two, a little respect would be nice.

Why? They also helped start WWII. Patton was right about the Russians.

In any event, Germany would have been defeated even without the Soviets. It would undoubtedly have taken longer with many more causalities on the Western side, but eventually Germany would have been forced to give up. As Albert Speer himself observed when the Americans entered the war that Germany was doomed - not because of their armies but because of their resources and overwhelming industrial power which also supported the Russians once they became allies. In short, the Russians never saved the West. What they did was expedite the defeat at great cost to themselves; but Stalin, like Hitler were never concerned how many lives it took to accomplish their ambitions.

Nevertheless, at the time the allies were shitting themselves worried that Russia would fall, they were not as confident as you are in your hindsight. The fact remains Russia crushed the monster Nazi war machine chased them through Europe back to Berlin and defeated them on their home ground. The west owes Russia and its people its respect, not that it will ever be forthcoming. Patton might have been a great strategist but he certainly was not an intellectual. Of course, war itself is not exactly an intellectual proposition. If Russia had fallen to the Nazi war machine, the natural resources available to Germany's war machine; would have exceeded that of American resources to its industrialization capabilities, which is why the Germans invaded.

We owe the Russians fuck all and nothing! Furthermore, they should never have received any of the lands belonging to the European subcontinent! They defended only themselves against the invader; the fact that the West was part of that coalition was nothing more than a side effect of that arrangement. In case you still don't understand, the Soviets were fighting for their own existence, as expected and definitely NOT for the West except what they could consequently gain by it. It was simply one monster fighting another monster!

Who knows if they had not made a pact with the Nazis starting WWII, whether Hitler would have or ever could have invaded Russia in the first place. The refusal by the Russians to join could have been interpreted as a warning by the Nazis! As it turned out, Patton was perfectly right in his prediction that the Russians under Stalin will never be friends with the West and instead become the new adversaries.

But that mental cripple Roosevelt and that alcoholic little swine Churchill were too enamored with Stalin to think that the current political coalition against one defeated western adversary could ever lead to enmity afterward...who thought that the collective destruction of Germany will seal their friendship from that point on as if that were still viable knowing of all the atrocities he already committed! Certainly Stalin was by far the more intelligent in that triumvirate of the Three Stooges taking advantages the other two brain-dead dolts should never have allowed...which those like Patton already understood as a big and potentially deadly mistake.

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:00 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:51 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:01 am

Why? They also helped start WWII. Patton was right about the Russians.

In any event, Germany would have been defeated even without the Soviets. It would undoubtedly have taken longer with many more causalities on the Western side, but eventually Germany would have been forced to give up. As Albert Speer himself observed when the Americans entered the war that Germany was doomed - not because of their armies but because of their resources and overwhelming industrial power which also supported the Russians once they became allies. In short, the Russians never saved the West. What they did was expedite the defeat at great cost to themselves; but Stalin, like Hitler were never concerned how many lives it took to accomplish their ambitions.

Nevertheless, at the time the allies were shitting themselves worried that Russia would fall, they were not as confident as you are in your hindsight. The fact remains Russia crushed the monster Nazi war machine chased them through Europe back to Berlin and defeated them on their home ground. The west owes Russia and its people its respect, not that it will ever be forthcoming. Patton might have been a great strategist but he certainly was not an intellectual. Of course, war itself is not exactly an intellectual proposition. If Russia had fallen to the Nazi war machine, the natural resources available to Germany's war machine; would have exceeded that of American resources to its industrialization capabilities, which is why the Germans invaded.

We owe the Russians fuck all and nothing! Furthermore, they should never have received any of the lands belonging to the European subcontinent! They defended only themselves against the invader; the fact that the West was part of that coalition was nothing more than a side effect of that arrangement. In case you still don't understand, the Soviets were fighting for their own existence, as expected and definitely NOT for the West except what they could consequently gain by it. It was simply one monster fighting another monster!

Who knows if they had not made a pact with the Nazis starting WWII, whether Hitler would have or ever could have invaded Russia in the first place. The refusal by the Russians to join could have been interpreted as a warning by the Nazis! As it turned out, Patton was perfectly right in his prediction that the Russians under Stalin will never be friends with the West and instead become the new adversaries.

But that mental cripple Roosevelt and that alcoholic little swine Churchill were too enamored with Stalin to think that the current political coalition against one defeated western adversary could ever lead to enmity afterward...who thought that the collective destruction of Germany will seal their friendship from that point on as if that were still viable knowing of all the atrocities he already committed! Certainly, Stalin was by far the more intelligent in that triumvirate of the Three Stooges taking advantages the other two brain-dead dolts should never have allowed...which those like Patton already understood as a big and potentially deadly mistake.

LOL!! A most unusual take on history. The Allies were named so because of their mutual dependence.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:43 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:00 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:51 am


Nevertheless, at the time the allies were shitting themselves worried that Russia would fall, they were not as confident as you are in your hindsight. The fact remains Russia crushed the monster Nazi war machine chased them through Europe back to Berlin and defeated them on their home ground. The west owes Russia and its people its respect, not that it will ever be forthcoming. Patton might have been a great strategist but he certainly was not an intellectual. Of course, war itself is not exactly an intellectual proposition. If Russia had fallen to the Nazi war machine, the natural resources available to Germany's war machine; would have exceeded that of American resources to its industrialization capabilities, which is why the Germans invaded.

We owe the Russians fuck all and nothing! Furthermore, they should never have received any of the lands belonging to the European subcontinent! They defended only themselves against the invader; the fact that the West was part of that coalition was nothing more than a side effect of that arrangement. In case you still don't understand, the Soviets were fighting for their own existence, as expected and definitely NOT for the West except what they could consequently gain by it. It was simply one monster fighting another monster!

Who knows if they had not made a pact with the Nazis starting WWII, whether Hitler would have or ever could have invaded Russia in the first place. The refusal by the Russians to join could have been interpreted as a warning by the Nazis! As it turned out, Patton was perfectly right in his prediction that the Russians under Stalin will never be friends with the West and instead become the new adversaries.

But that mental cripple Roosevelt and that alcoholic little swine Churchill were too enamored with Stalin to think that the current political coalition against one defeated western adversary could ever lead to enmity afterward...who thought that the collective destruction of Germany will seal their friendship from that point on as if that were still viable knowing of all the atrocities he already committed! Certainly, Stalin was by far the more intelligent in that triumvirate of the Three Stooges taking advantages the other two brain-dead dolts should never have allowed...which those like Patton already understood as a big and potentially deadly mistake.

LOL!! A most unusual take on history. The Allies were named so because of their mutual dependence.

LOL! And how long did that last before the Soviets showed their true colors is the point? Do you ever think at all or analyze?

You haven't come up with a single argument against anything I said.

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:08 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:43 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:00 am

We owe the Russians fuck all and nothing! Furthermore, they should never have received any of the lands belonging to the European subcontinent! They defended only themselves against the invader; the fact that the West was part of that coalition was nothing more than a side effect of that arrangement. In case you still don't understand, the Soviets were fighting for their own existence, as expected and definitely NOT for the West except what they could consequently gain by it. It was simply one monster fighting another monster!

Who knows if they had not made a pact with the Nazis starting WWII, whether Hitler would have or ever could have invaded Russia in the first place. The refusal by the Russians to join could have been interpreted as a warning by the Nazis! As it turned out, Patton was perfectly right in his prediction that the Russians under Stalin will never be friends with the West and instead become the new adversaries.

But that mental cripple Roosevelt and that alcoholic little swine Churchill were too enamored with Stalin to think that the current political coalition against one defeated western adversary could ever lead to enmity afterward...who thought that the collective destruction of Germany will seal their friendship from that point on as if that were still viable knowing of all the atrocities he already committed! Certainly, Stalin was by far the more intelligent in that triumvirate of the Three Stooges taking advantages the other two brain-dead dolts should never have allowed...which those like Patton already understood as a big and potentially deadly mistake.

LOL!! A most unusual take on history. The Allies were named so because of their mutual dependence.

LOL! And how long did that last before the Soviets showed their true colors is the point? Do you ever think at all or analyze?

You haven't come up with a single argument against anything I said.

I think you only know your history from watching television.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:11 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:08 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:43 pm

LOL!! A most unusual take on history. The Allies were named so because of their mutual dependence.

LOL! And how long did that last before the Soviets showed their true colors is the point? Do you ever think at all or analyze?

You haven't come up with a single argument against anything I said.

I think you only know your history from watching television.

No, I don't get my history from watching television though, admittedly some docs are pretty good. As I said, there is not even one sentence of yours to refute anything I stated, so you come along with pathetic little shit like this not knowing how else to reply. How common! The ONLY thing you've made clear so far is how much you hate the U.S. and NATO and conversely your admiration and justification of the Russians without factoring in any of their atrocities!

popeye1945 wrote:

We are birds of a feather on your evaluation --- excellent!! With but one exception

I agree "but with one exception".

America is not the same America as when it was founded.
The world is in transition at present and a New World Order is being developed.
America is powerful, do not underestimate this.
Granted there is an imbecile at present as its President .......for now,
but in reality he has no power, so who is behind the hierarchy and what are the motives that will affect us today?
Church and State is coming in the United States and it will eventually control the civil government.

The First Amendment
The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively, form the textual basis for the Supreme Court's interpretations of the "separation of church and state" doctrine. Three central concepts were derived from the 1st Amendment which became America's doctrine for church-state separation: no coercion in religious matters, no expectation to support a religion against one's will, and religious liberty encompasses all religions. In sum, citizens are free to embrace or reject a faith, and support for religion—financial or physical—must be voluntary, and all religions are equal in the eyes of the law with no special preference or favoritism.

Lauren Boebert went full theocracy, and proclaimed, “The church is supposed to direct the government” per the founding fathers.

Are her opinions on church and state separation simply her own, are they reflective of a large segment of the American population?

What does this morality movement in America mean?

In the past history has shown that when the church directs the state all it leads to is the crushing of individual rights, liberties, privacies, things like the constitution and bill of rights were actually made of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-G-oAl9pF8

Who controls the world's money and power rules the world.

How is economic collapse prepartion for global rule?

One thing for sure we are in for a time of trouble and chaos.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:49 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:11 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:08 pm

LOL! And how long did that last before the Soviets showed their true colors is the point? Do you ever think at all or analyze?

You haven't come up with a single argument against anything I said.

I think you only know your history from watching television.

No, I don't get my history from watching television though, admittedly some docs are pretty good. As I said, there is not even one sentence of yours to refute anything I stated, so you come along with pathetic little shit like this not knowing how else to reply. How common! The ONLY thing you've made clear so far is how much you hate the U.S. and NATO and conversely your admiration and justification of the Russians without factoring in any of their atrocities!

America is a declining empire which makes it all the more dangerous. I have heard all I wish to hear from the extreme rightwing flag wavers. The world power structure is changing as we speak, and if America doesn't bring about Armageddon its power is going to be greatly diminished by the world uniting in resistance to an entity which has not been a kind master. Whether that be shown in places across the globe like Vietnam or the Regan death squads of South America. America's time has come. It is so invested in world domination that many places in America look like third world countries with growing legions of the homeless. If this were a person one was trying to analyze, they would be considered psychopaths, absolute power apparently, corrupts absolutely.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:55 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:49 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:11 am


I think you only know your history from watching television.

No, I don't get my history from watching television though, admittedly some docs are pretty good. As I said, there is not even one sentence of yours to refute anything I stated, so you come along with pathetic little shit like this not knowing how else to reply. How common! The ONLY thing you've made clear so far is how much you hate the U.S. and NATO and conversely your admiration and justification of the Russians without factoring in any of their atrocities!

America is a declining empire which makes it all the more dangerous. I have heard all I wish to hear from the extreme rightwing flag wavers. The world power structure is changing as we speak, and if America doesn't bring about Armageddon its power is going to be greatly diminished by the world uniting in resistance to an entity which has not been a kind master. Whether that be shown in places across the globe like Vietnam or the Regan death squads of South America. America's time has come. It is so invested in world domination that many places in America look like third world countries with growing legions of the homeless. If this were a person one was trying to analyze, they would be considered psychopaths, absolute power apparently, corrupts absolutely.

Talk about Armageddon, it seems you have things backwards. It's not America consistently threatening nuclear war. All of this you never mention.

Are you really so naive to think that a rising power complex headed by China and Russia under BRIC are going to be any kinder than the U.S. both of whom as eager for geopolitical power and other lands they can control? The fact is they want the power America has had for decades, and they'll do anything to get it. Change always happens which doesn't mean it's for the better.

Not least, your constant harping on the Vietnam War is somewhat nauseating considering that you never mention Russia's record in Syria and even within its own borders where any dissent can get you a life-long lease in the gulag hotel.

With your one-sided view it seems you wouldn't mind seeing the entire planet placed under a dictatorship just to avoid the historical evils of America!

For me, better the devil you know than the one you hope replaces it!