Philosophy Now Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:06 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:48 am

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:43 am


Nietzsche

Yeah. Nietzsche tried to sneak his own moralizing in the back door, after claiming to have destroyed all possibility of moralizing.

You can judge the success of that strategy.

Nietzsche tried to re-evaluate values in his day in hopes of finding what he termed "life affirming" ones instead of "ascetic ideals."

Sure. But how do you "re-evaluate" something when you have no objective scale of "values" left?

Once Nietzsche banished values, or morality -- which even he said he was doing when he banished God -- then logically, he was not merely "transvaluing" things, as people sometimes say of Nietzsche: rather, the implication is that nothing can have any objective "value" at all. And since subjective "value" is no more than preference, all value is gone.

What gives Nietzsche, then, the justification to tell us that his so-called "life affirming" values are deserving of a value? He cannot make that case any longer. And he didn't. He couldn't. All he could do is arbitrarily backdoor them, by asserting them without justification, and hope that nobody noticed.

But we have noticed.

And once we notice, we realize that Nietzsche is not really justifying "will to power," or "life affirming" or "ubermensching" -- instead, he's just claiming they have a value he denies anything can have. He's a Nihilist, essentially. Only he was not consistent enough to go there...

Or he saw the black pit yawning, and ran away. One or the other.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:23 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:32 am IC already mentioned that no one including himself wanted to know the details of that H & F saga back in the day...and yet IC didn't seem to care about raising the H bomb all over again for everyone including himself to know. It's like what the actual! ..He seriously has some weird mental issue going on inside his warped and crooked mind.

Good, old IC said.....

However, Fairy subjected us all to page after page of hand-wringing detail about it, whether we wanted to know or not.

He seems to have read the whole thing, all the hand-wringing details as he sees them. He seems not to understand that most of us realize that he can stop at any point when reading something. And yes, he's bringing it back now and Harbal back now.

He either thinks he can't help himself, or knows quite well he could, but doesn't want us to know he chose to read every detail. How easy it is for some libertarian free willers to present themselves as having been forced into doing things that a kid could teach them how to avoid.

Quite true

ICs behaviour makes me look like a saint.

Thanks for exposing the hypocrisy.

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:43 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:21 am

Alexiev wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:58 pm

Who fully understands anything, especially love? (Except IC, of course.)

I do, I understand how to love unconditionally. All because I know my true worth and value and heart. So far I have never been able to find a man to match equally, what I am able to give to them.

Not that I care really. I'm in love only with myself. Others are just extensions of myself, is my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

Earth girls are not easy for an earth man.

There does not so far seem to be an earthly man capable of loving women unconditionally, I could be wrong though.

But sexual attraction is not love. Romantic love is not love. To glorify romantic love for another person is silly and enslaving.

Shut up weirdo. What an idiotic thing to say. You are beyond weird.

H and I were electric together. I’m forever thankful for the love we shared for two years, even though it all ended very badly. . I wouldn’t change what we shared for anything. It was one of the most exquisitely beautiful chapters of love with another person I’ve ever throughly enjoyed in my entire life. We were just never meant to be together for too long. But that short time we did have together was the most incredible time of my life. …and I wouldn’t have missed it for the world. I hope he one day finds the right woman for him who makes him happy, that woman wasn’t me.

Even my 18 year marriage to the father of my 4 kids never came close to how amazing I felt when I was with H

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:23 pm He seems not to understand that most of us realize that he can stop at any point when reading something. And yes, he's bringing it back now and Harbal back now.

Oh, I knew, alright. But I was one of the very few people here who was expressing any concern about somebody who was, at the time, so distraught that she was claiming she wanted to end her own life, and that of her daughter. Most other people were simply content to let whatever was going to happen happen.

So anybody who had a modicum of caring was more or less prisoner to (what eventually turned out to be only) the narcissistic gesturing of this overwrought and angry woman, until she calmed down enough not to do what she was threatening to do.

And if one more admired the people who simply "stopped reading," then perhaps there's a problem with that choice, wouldn't you say?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:02 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:23 pm He seems not to understand that most of us realize that he can stop at any point when reading something. And yes, he's bringing it back now and Harbal back now.

Oh, I knew, alright. But I was one of the very few people here who was expressing any concern about somebody who was, at the time, so distraught that she was claiming she wanted to end her own life, and that of her daughter. Most other people were simply content to let whatever was going to happen happen.

So anybody who had a modicum of caring was more or less prisoner to (what eventually turned out to be only) the narcissistic gesturing of this overwrought and angry woman, until she calmed down enough not to do what she was threatening to do.

And if one more admired the people who simply "stopped reading," then perhaps there's a problem with that choice, wouldn't you say?

My god you always have to make this about YOU YOU YOU DONT YOU.

How fucking noble of you. Do you want the noble peace prize.



I’ve already told you I wasn’t interested in sympathy … I’m not some sad damsel in distress that you felt the need to rescue me.

I’d rather kill myself than ever accept your help.


You are a vile spiteful human being …and all the negative things Harbal said about you to me was completely spot on.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:02 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:23 pm He seems not to understand that most of us realize that he can stop at any point when reading something. And yes, he's bringing it back now and Harbal back now.

Oh, I knew, alright. But I was one of the very few people here who was expressing any concern about somebody who was, at the time, so distraught that she was claiming she wanted to end her own life, and that of her daughter. Most other people were simply content to let whatever was going to happen happen.

So anybody who had a modicum of caring was more or less prisoner to (what eventually turned out to be only) the narcissistic gesturing of this overwrought and angry woman, until she calmed down enough not to do what she was threatening to do.

And if one more admired the people who simply "stopped reading," then perhaps there's a problem with that choice, wouldn't you say?

Stop telling people I wanted to kill my daughter you absolute sociopathic psychopath…. That is the second time you’ve said that when I already corrected your gross error.

My daughter has been severely mentally ill and suicidal for years now. You misunderstood what was said that night because you are insane.

I did not want to end my daughters life….she wants to do that herself…so get your crooked story right you absolute freak.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:02 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:23 pm He seems not to understand that most of us realize that he can stop at any point when reading something. And yes, he's bringing it back now and Harbal back now.

Oh, I knew, alright. But I was one of the very few people here who was expressing any concern

Your only concern is for your own narcissistic self and care only for how you are perceived by other people. You care more about yourself than anyone on this forum.

All you ever do is big yourself up at the expense of others misery.

Every thread you appear on you systematically destroy it with your incessant GOD talk. Always talking others down if they do not agree with you.

You infect every thread you visit with the same old God crap, and now you are starting to include Harbal into your insane mixing bowl of poisonous ingredients. You are like a cancer on every thread you visit. You had no excuse to bring up the Harbal saga on this thread, but you did it out of spite because you were terrified of losing the debate we were both having over the issue of Evil.

You used H against me because you are scared of someone like me exposing your stupid issues with “Evil”making you look very foolish.

I can’t believe you brought up the Harbal saga here on this thread that was never involved with what was said that night on another thread.

You seem to get pleasure infecting other people’s threads with your own narcissistic spiteful and disgusting stupidity.

You are seriously disturbing

Fairy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:13 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:02 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:23 pm He seems not to understand that most of us realize that he can stop at any point when reading something. And yes, he's bringing it back now and Harbal back now.

Oh, I knew, alright. But I was one of the very few people here who was expressing any concern about somebody who was, at the time, so distraught that she was claiming she wanted to end her own life, and that of her daughter. Most other people were simply content to let whatever was going to happen happen.

So anybody who had a modicum of caring was more or less prisoner to (what eventually turned out to be only) the narcissistic gesturing of this overwrought and angry woman, until she calmed down enough not to do what she was threatening to do.

And if one more admired the people who simply "stopped reading," then perhaps there's a problem with that choice, wouldn't you say?

My god you always have to make this about YOU YOU YOU DONT YOU.

Actually, this was all about you. You were the one who caused all the drama, and you were the one threatening to top yourself, and even take your (presumably innocent) daughter with you.

I’d rather kill myself than ever accept your help.

Well, I was not keen to see you do it, and I was concerned for your daughter's safety. Others, it seems, were not: some remained silent. I suppose they were more willing you should do it, or perhaps they were simply unwilling even to try to talk you out of it, because they might end up involved, or catch spiteful backlash.

It seems they were estimating that rightly. Whomever showed caring, you were going to prove abusive to them.

You are a vile spiteful human being

Really? More "vile" and "spiteful" than the people who were willing you should kill yourself and your daughter? Or just more "vile" and "spiteful" than the woman who pretended she was willing to do it?

It's so hard to see what was good or evil when all values are "subjective," isn't it?

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:43 pm

Fairy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:21 am

Alexiev wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:58 pm

Who fully understands anything, especially love? (Except IC, of course.)

I do, I understand how to love unconditionally. All because I know my true worth and value and heart. So far I have never been able to find a man to match equally, what I am able to give to them.

Not that I care really. I'm in love only with myself. Others are just extensions of myself, is my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.

Earth girls are not easy for an earth man.

There does not so far seem to be an earthly man capable of loving women unconditionally, I could be wrong though.

But sexual attraction is not love. Romantic love is not love. To glorify romantic love for another person is silly and enslaving.

If either if you go back and read the ending of Fathers and Sons I posted, I'll add that Bazarov, who is buried in that cemetery, called himself a nihilist. His parents didn't understand. It was incomprehensible to them, but they loved him even after he died. That seems unconditional to me.

In terms of eros, I wonder if unconditional love is a good thing (good as opposed to bad, not to evil). Sex and eros are powerful motivators. Isn't unconditional love lacking in discrimination. Don't we all want our lovers to love us not unconditionally, but because we are noble, or entertaining, or sexy, or clever? Aren't we motivated to be the best person we can be in the hope of being worthy of eros? Mightn't unconditional love encourage abusive behavior in any who tend in that direction?

We all know we are not worthy of unconditional love, so when and if we receive it (for eros), we might lose respect for the lover. How can she be so blind, we might wonder. It's almost as if, as the song goes, unconditional love suggests "I fell in love with love one night when the moon was full". It may seem to denigrate the value and individuality of the lover.

Fairy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:08 pm You used H against me ...

You posted your dirty laundry with H. in public. You waved it around like flag. It was you who claimed he'd "used" you.

I merely referred to what you had already voluntarily forced into the spotlight and made public business. And you don't like that I'm right: you regard H's treatment of you as bad/wrong/evil/hurtful/unfair...(add your own word). And you think that we should all agree with you that it is: for otherwise, why post what you had no reason to expect anybody would find compelling of sympathy or even agreement?

But you thought that if you aired your underwear like that, that people, good people, right-thinking people, would be bound to agree with you. You thought they'd recognize H's conduct as, in some sense, "bad." And you thought they'd see you as a victim, not as a collaborator in your own misery.

So you believe in objective evil. You just don't say you do.

Fuck off you woman hating disgrace. You have an ugly black heart

And you never apologise for your own gross misconduct when it comes to misunderstanding other people’s situations and that’s because you are the epitome of perfect in your own eyes.

Every one sees through you except yourself.

I wasn’t looking for people to agree with me. Or sympathise with me. Neither did I feel like I was a victim. You say those things because you have never grown out of your emotionally immature old school condescending manchild conditioned false beliefs.

That night, only I existed in the whole world, no else existed for me. I used this forum as a weapon…fucking shoot me in the head it’s all I deserve.

And …The way you put words into other people’s mouths that they haven’t meant, or implied , or said or believed is a very disturbing mentality you have. You need serious help, go to therapy.

“You posted your dirty laundry with H. in public. You waved it around like flag. It was you who claimed he'd "used" you.”


———-

We used each other…the dirty laundry was actually clean. I made a clean cut straight into his heart just as he did to mine.
We got equal…


Get your facts straight.

Fairy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:42 pm I wasn’t looking for people to agree with me. Or sympathise with me. Neither did I feel like I was a victim.

All of that. Anybody who looks back at the transcript can see it.

If not, then why, exactly, were you making your personal business public here? Why didn't you go to a friend, a clergyman, a therapist, a suicide hotline, a doctor...somebody who was actually relevant to your needs, and with whom you could have retained an expectation of personal privacy and confidentiality? Why splash your misery out upon strange people, many of whom don't even live in your country? What was the good of that?

That night, only I existed in the whole world, no else existed for me. I used this forum as a weapon…fucking shoot me in the head it’s all I deserve.

So you were feeling narcissistic, and wanted to use us (the forum) to hurt H.?

And that wasn't "vile" and "spiteful," but somebody trying to help you was?

As I have been known to exclaim:

AJ wrote: A toad beneath the Harbal knows where each tooth points.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:53 pm

If not, then why, exactly, were you making your personal business public here? Why didn't you go to a friend, a clergyman, a therapist, a suicide hotline, a doctor...somebody who was actually relevant to your needs, and with whom you could have retained an expectation of personal privacy and confidentiality? Why splash your misery out upon strange people, many of whom don't even live in your country?

All good stories are about individuals. Also, when individual stories stimulate philosophical discussion, they make it more interesting. Who doesn't like that kind of thing?