A Challenge to Richard Dawkins and the Atheists

[thedoc]

Apparently Harbal thinks that only men can do philosophy and women are too emotional.

Yes. Or as you suggested, he has some personal reason for caring whether or not they are...

I believe that it has become obvious that Harbal has the "hots" for several of the female members of this forum, perhaps his wife isn't "putting out" as much as he would like?

[Arising_uk]

No. ...

Oh! Talking to me now eh!

Red Cross -- "Founder: J. H. Dunant was born in Geneva, Switzerland, the first son of businessman Jean-Jacques Dunant and Antoinette Dunant-Colladon. His family was devoutly Calvinist..."

Died an agnostic and did not set it up because he was a Christian but because he saw suffering, something atheists do as well.

UNICEF -- "Faith-based organizations and religious groups have become important partners in UNICEF's work with children across the globe. In developing countries, UNICEF works very closely with religious communities - ranging from those of the Buddhist and Islamic faith to several denominations within the Christian faith - whose tenets of religion include an interest in the health and wellbeing of people, and particularly of children..."

But not a Christian organization, just works with religious groups.

Oxfam -- "Oxfam was founded at 17 Broad Street in Oxford, Oxfordshire, in 1942 as the Oxford Committee for Famine Relief by a group of Quakers, social activists, and Oxford academics..."

One of whom was a humanist and apparently a paganist.

Seriously.

Seriously interesting that you ignore the other charities I mentioned nor addressed the issue that many Christian charities are set-up to promote the faith but atheist ones do it for the love.

[Arising_uk]

...
All the organizations around here that provide for for those in need are religious based organizations, perhaps the atheists feel that the religious based groups are doing such a good job that they don't need to do anything. That does not just include food, it also provides other services, clothing, school supplies, payments for utilities, etc.

Actually I think most atheists would prefer if the taxation system provided a fairer and more equitable system and workers had a fairer share of the pie rather than pennies in the collection plates to salve the conscience.

[Dubious]

According to you, what do I have to believe?

...nothing that I say or qualified to say on behalf of another. As an older person, believe what your conscience commends as a source of comfort. There’s no payback now in getting analytical. Most of the objections here have less to do with belief in the Bible than with IC’s sick virulence against atheists which in its insane hatred completely escapes reality.

Nice dodge, Again what do I believe according to you? I was asking what you think that I am supposed to believe. Without your being specific, I can't respond with an agreement or denial.

What IC believes or doesn't believe is irrelevant to the conversation. We tend to agree but there are some minor differences.

[Arising_uk]

Since I haven't died (yet) I'll give it a try, I believe the "end of times" is an individual thing and not necessarily an event that will happen world wide at one time. ...

What do you mean by "not necessarily"? So you agree that many theists believe in an 'end of times' where judgement will be meted out to the believers and unbelievers alike.

Each individual faces their own judgment on death, and for believers, as determined by God not men, that will determine heaven or not. Heaven does not involve endless time, but eternity, which is different. ...

That's interesting, so atheists just die?

I really can't speak for what other Christians believe, unlike some atheists who think they know what all Christians and other religious people are supposed to believe.

And yet you just did above with your "not necessarily" unless of course you're like me and have asked them what they believe.

[Immanuel Can]

Apparently Harbal thinks that only men can do philosophy and women are too emotional.

Yes. Or as you suggested, he has some personal reason for caring whether or not they are...

I believe that it has become obvious that Harbal has the "hots" for several of the female members of this forum, perhaps his wife isn't "putting out" as much as he would like?

Ouch.

Well, I won't speculate. But it's odd that he cares so evidently about that when others don't. After all, philosophy is philosophy, and logic is logic.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

There are a lot of kristian charities because kristians are the biggest thieves and scammers, and they exploit kristian guilt and desire for brown-points.
Money that's hidden in foreign bank accounts isn't going to show up, idiot. The Salvation Army is a multi-billion dollar corporation. A few soup kitchens and 'charity' shops (that incidentally make a hell of a lot of money) aren't going to make a dent in the interest, let alone net profit.

I can understand your spite and venom. After all, they're certainly outperforming the billions of Atheist-run soup kitchens. Competition is so cruel.

What can you say for someone who finds a way to begrudge the poor a bowl of soup?

Maybe, "Have a nice day." Not much else.

All the organizations around here that provide for for those in need are religious based organizations, perhaps the atheists feel that the religious based groups are doing such a good job that they don't need to do anything. That does not just include food, it also provides other services, clothing, school supplies, payments for utilities, etc.

They also make a shit-load of money and don't have to pay taxes.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Well I don't think either of you have to worry about anyone having any level of 'hots' for you.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

There are a lot of kristian charities because kristians are the biggest thieves and scammers, and they exploit kristian guilt and desire for brown-points.
Money that's hidden in foreign bank accounts isn't going to show up, idiot. The Salvation Army is a multi-billion dollar corporation. A few soup kitchens and 'charity' shops (that incidentally make a hell of a lot of money) aren't going to make a dent in the interest, let alone net profit.

I can understand your spite and venom. After all, they're certainly outperforming the billions of Atheist-run soup kitchens. Competition is so cruel.

What can you say for someone who finds a way to begrudge the poor a bowl of soup?

Maybe, "Have a nice day." Not much else.

I don't begrudge the poor anything. The Sallies should be providing 5 star meals and accommodation for them considering the amount of money those kristian thieves are raking in, tax free.

[Immanuel Can]

They also make a shit-load of money and don't have to pay taxes.

Rubbish. You know nothing about it. I can tell by the way you talk that you've no exposure to it at all.

You'll find that the people who work for those organizations often earn a fraction of what they could in the private sector, and do a ton of stuff for free.

But go do some charitable work yourself, and you'll find out. Of course, Atheism won't warrant that, so you'll have to find a new reason.

It's always so much easier to criticize when you're doing nothing yourself.

[Dubious]

Nice dodge, Again what do I believe according to you?

That the Bible is the word of god and that Jesus is the Son of the OT god. So on and so forth…..

I was asking what you think that I am supposed to believe.

What you’re supposed to believe is a different question entirely the answer to which is not to be presumed by me. That’s what you’re own intelligence is for. Why try to bait someone else with a question that can’t be answered, since I’m not you?

...anyways I have answered your question what I think you believe as far as I can tell from your posts.

An addendum: Claiming only ‘minor’ differences between your views and IC forces the conclusion that theism has infected you both with the same disease for which obviously there is no antidote. Both of your mental immune systems have been dismantled long ago.

My belief now more than ever is that theism is humanities' “poisoned chalice”.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

They also make a shit-load of money and don't have to pay taxes.

Rubbish. You know nothing about it.

The people who work for those organizations often earn a fraction of what they could in the private sector, and do a ton of stuff for free. But go do some charitable work yourself, and you'll find out.

Which part is rubbish? Listen dipshit, it's not rocket science. When you have a huge amount of money coming in, with very little outlay and no taxes to pay, then the result is a shit-load of money. 'Charity' is big business. FACT.
And kkkristian children's homes and orphanages are notorious for the brutality and sexual and physical abuse that's gone on for decades. The Sallies are particularly evil.

''Harrowing accounts of abuse and cruelty at children's homes run by the Salvation Army have been heard as royal commission hearings in Adelaide go into a third day.

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse today heard stories of sexual violence committed against children at Box Hill and Bayswater boys' homes in Melbourne.

Former resident Ross Rogers said he was frequently raped and sexually abused by senior Salvation Army officer Willem Willemsen in the 1950s.

He described being beaten and said on one occasion when he tried to resist the sexual abuse, Willemsen grabbed a nearby plank of wood and hit him across the face, breaking his nose.

"I understood from my lawyers that the Salvation Army's response was one of complete denial," he said.

"They denied any responsibility for what happened to me and responsibility for Willemsen or his actions."

Mr Rogers said he was given $32,500 in compensation from the Salvation Army, but after paying his legal fees he was left with $11,000.

He said it was the lack of support that upset him most.

Nobody from the Salvation Army ever listened to my story or spoke to me at all. They just denied everything and left it to their lawyers to sort out.
Former Box Hill resident Ross Rogers

"At no point through the criminal proceedings relating to Willemsen nor my civil claim did anybody from the Salvation Army contact me," Mr Rogers said.

"I was not offered any counselling. Nobody from the Salvation Army ever listened to my story or spoke to me at all. They just denied everything and left it to their lawyers to sort out."

Mr Rogers said he was left with no closure from the Salvation Army.''

'''Endemic' rape and abuse of Irish children in Catholic care, inquiry finds''

''White Christian, Gerald Campbell Rapes Black Children In Malawi''

...............................................................

[Greta]

You'll find that the people who work for those organizations often earn a fraction of what they could in the private sector, and do a ton of stuff for free.

But go do some charitable work yourself, and you'll find out. Of course, Atheism won't warrant that, so you'll have to find a new reason.

Actually I did voluntary online work for victims of workplace bullying for a decade, and I have long disliked religion.

Why did I do it? Empathy. I'd been bullied myself and my job at the time gave me the legal and practical knowledge to put me in a position where I could make a difference.

Sportspeople and artists often start charities after meeting disabled kids as part of their promo work. Numerous people are motivated to help after a family member is harmed by unexpected problems. Religion likes to take credit for all charity but it's a lie. In the past religious charities were the only ones because those who declared themselves to be nonreligious would be denied employment in the sector. Gradually secular organisations are creeping in, as quickly as they are allowed. Some people are empathetic and some are not, and logically religion is no determinant.

People don't need religion to feel empathetic towards other beings and to be motivated to volunteer significant effort into helping others with no material reward or reputation lift. On the other hand, intense religious belief can lead to the opposite of empathy - objectification - hence the horrors of religious extremism.

[Harbal]

Yes. Or as you suggested, he has some personal reason for caring whether or not they are...

I believe that it has become obvious that Harbal has the "hots" for several of the female members of this forum, perhaps his wife isn't "putting out" as much as he would like?

Ouch.

Well, I won't speculate. But it's odd that he cares so evidently about that when others don't. After all, philosophy is philosophy, and logic is logic.

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about, so you two carry on, it's doing my ego a world of good. Sorry I can't stay and join in, I've just noticed Greta has turned up and I need to go and ask if she fancies swapping a few dirty PMs.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

You'll find that the people who work for those organizations often earn a fraction of what they could in the private sector, and do a ton of stuff for free.

But go do some charitable work yourself, and you'll find out. Of course, Atheism won't warrant that, so you'll have to find a new reason.

Actually I did voluntary online work for victims of workplace bullying for a decade, and I have long disliked religion.

Why did I do it? Empathy. I'd been bullied myself and my job at the time gave me the legal and practical knowledge to put me in a position where I could make a difference.

Sportspeople and artists often start charities after meeting disabled kids as part of their promo work. Numerous people are motivated to help after a family member is harmed by unexpected problems. Religion likes to take credit for all charity but it's a lie. In the past religious charities were the only ones because those who declared themselves to be nonreligious would be denied employment in the sector. Gradually secular organisations are creeping in, as quickly as they are allowed. Some people are empathetic and some are not, and logically religion is no determinant.

People don't need religion to feel empathetic towards other beings and to be motivated to volunteer significant effort into helping others with no material reward or reputation lift. On the other hand, intense religious belief can lead to the opposite of empathy - objectification - hence the horrors of religious extremism.

Excellent points Greta. I think it's probably true that most Big Business charities are kristian, but many people give anonymously to causes that they feel empathy for, be it a sick child, or an animal sanctuary, or any of the other millions of worthy recipients who miss out to the big name charities with money to burn on 'marketing' and PR. Giving to Big Business kristian charities is akin to donating your money to Donald Trump or Bill Gates.