Philosophy Now Forum

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:26 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:03 pm Well... no.

The correct response would have been, "You're responsible for what you do know, not what you don't; but everybody already knows enough." (Romans 1:20)

That's not as entertaining.

Oh I think it is.

What's the point of scripture if everyone already knows?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:26 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:03 pm Well... no.

The correct response would have been, "You're responsible for what you do know, not what you don't; but everybody already knows enough." (Romans 1:20)

I already know it's all a load of nonsense.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:26 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:03 pm Well... no.

The correct response would have been, "You're responsible for what you do know, not what you don't; but everybody already knows enough." (Romans 1:20)

That's not as entertaining.

Yeah...it kind of makes the joke pointless.

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:45 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:26 pm
The correct response would have been, "You're responsible for what you do know, not what you don't; but everybody already knows enough." (Romans 1:20)

That's not as entertaining.

Oh I think it is.

What's the point of scripture if everyone already knows?

Because that's only first of many things one needs to know.

Knowledge is like that: it goes on.

If everyone already knows, then why are there so many versions of Christianity?

Why are there other religions?

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:51 pm If everyone already knows, then why are there so many versions of Christianity?

Why are there other religions?

The inherent ideological solipsism in these religions is truly mind-boggling.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:54 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:51 pm If everyone already knows, then why are there so many versions of Christianity?

Why are there other religions?

The inherent ideological solipsism in these religions is truly mind-boggling.

Has it occurred to you that it's not a stitch different than the "ideological solipsism" it take for an Atheist to dismiss them all? It's exactly the same phenomenon.

But to be fair, we all want to believe that what we believe is the truth. It's not different for Richard Dawkins, or for a member of ISIS: they believe what they believe, because they believe it to be true. And if they stop believing it's the best, fairest and most comprehensive way to look at reality, than any good person will simply change his mind, and believe something somewhat different...but with equal fervency and commitment. That's what human beings do.

In fact, I can't really imagine what it would be like to be somebody who says, "What I say I believe is not really what I believe is true at all...I don't actually believe in any truth, but plan to just wobble around cluelessly, utterly uncommitted to any values, propositions or truths, until I die." I don't know why anybody would want to meet such a person, far less to be him.

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:51 pm If everyone already knows, then why are there so many versions of Christianity?

There aren't. But there are many fakes, of course. Good things are always replicated, though often with inferior manufacture.

Why are there other religions?

Because not everybody believes the truth. We all have free will: some people use it for one thing, and others for different things.

Look, I know this is off topic but think of this in relation to the recent Supreme Court ruling: Biden can now •assassinate• Trump with impunity!

It’s not yet dawned on the Dems what a boon this is! (Nit-wits!)

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 5:04 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:54 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:51 pm If everyone already knows, then why are there so many versions of Christianity?

Why are there other religions?

The inherent ideological solipsism in these religions is truly mind-boggling.

Has it occurred to you that it's not a stitch different than the "ideological solipsism" it take for an Atheist to dismiss them all? It's exactly the same phenomenon.

Yeah it's pretty different.

You're misunderstanding ideological solipsism btw. You think it's a matter of thinking you're right and/or thinking others are wrong. That's not what I'm talking about. That's not solipsism, that's just believing something is true.

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:03 pm Then why did you tell me?

I realize and acknowledge the problematics of Christian missionary activity. But even if Christianity had not become the dominant religious and cultural form, Occidental civilization would have had a similar effect.

In the Americas for example there hardly seems a way that Occidental culture could have avoided being a force of destruction for those pagan cultures and their ways.

It is a strange and cruel fact that any “telling” involves introducing the entire corpus of Occidental categories. Unless all contact with the natives would have been prohibited.

(I am not minimizing the tragedy of the destruction of those cultures.)

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 5:29 pm
You misunderstanding ideological solipsism btw.

You mean that all one’s reference points seem absolute to oneself because, quite simply, one cannot see beyond them? Thus solipsistic?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 5:38 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 5:29 pm
You misunderstanding ideological solipsism btw.

You mean that all one’s reference points seem absolute to oneself because, quite simply, one cannot see beyond them? Thus solipsistic?

Maybe something like that.

Many times in my life I've come across people who say things like what IC just said. "Deep down, everyone really knows <X> is <true/false>." Muslims say it (not all of them), Christians say it (not all of them), I was even blown away once when I met an atheist who said he doesn't think anybody really believes in God!

I think all versions of that are ridiculous. People actually really do believe different things.

Btw thanks for notifying me of the grammar mistake, fixed now.

Yet it is a Platonic assertion, isn’t it? That realization and knowing is remembering?

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 5:29 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 5:04 pm

Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2024 4:54 pm

The inherent ideological solipsism in these religions is truly mind-boggling.

Has it occurred to you that it's not a stitch different than the "ideological solipsism" it take for an Atheist to dismiss them all? It's exactly the same phenomenon.

Yeah it's pretty different.

You're misunderstanding ideological solipsism btw. You think it's a matter of thinking you're right and/or thinking others are wrong. That's not what I'm talking about. That's not solipsism, that's just believing something is true.

But that's all it is. So why call it "ideological solipsism"?

It's not as if religious people have some different psychology from, say, Atheists, you know. Atheists insist that their worldview is the right one, and have contempt for any other possibility, and dismiss the other side(s) outright, even prior to investigation, and have no basis in evidence for their own view (whereas at least some religious people insist they do have evidence)...so what aspect of "solipsistic" thinking do Atheists lack, that you see exhibited in those you condemn as "religious"?