Philosophy Now Forum

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:31 am Nick wrote:

You are referring to secular interpretations of religion

"Secular" , and scientifically rigorous, interpretations of religion are impartial. A man can be impartial as to beliefs and also sure as to personal , felt, experiences like satori.

Experiences like satori and cognitive impartiality are not mutually exclusive. You have heard of insight. Insight into one's own experiences comes from impartiality. True, spontaneous joy or sorrow and so on do change the mood in which we view what happens to us. To serve truth we have to respect reality which trumps moods, reason, and mystical insight.

There is evidence for inborn sense of justice. Very young children, almost babies, have shown that fairness is not learned but is inborn. That being the case any man who has mystical experiences under his belt may have more experience than the man who lacks it, but the mystic is not better than or wiser regarding justice than the man whose learning from experience is not mystical i.e. other than, as Greta says it, "metaphysical".

Here is one of many reports from a variety of sources regarding the experiment (cross cultural)about inborn sense of justice.

https://www.bu.edu/research/articles/ch ... -fairness/

The research is ongoing.
“Right now, we have a good measurement of behavior but no in-depth understanding of cultural patterns, socialization, or anthropology,” says Warneken."

If you are seriously averse to "edu" in addresses there are popular reports too. Google "Babies' inborn sense of fairness."

_______________________

Nick , I think you and I are on the same page about secularised religion. We don't like it. Whare we differ is that you are more optimistic about religion than I am. You think that religion can be pure and unadulterated by learned prejudices and the shadow side of men. I am pessimistic about that possibility and I think that religion is always man made and therefore not from God; moreover as man made institutions go, religions are peculiarly liable to corruption and self seeking.

Mystical experience in its pure form,if such is possible , does not have to be attached to any belief whatsoever. The fact that you attribute your mystical experience to Platonic ontology and gnostic spirituality is an accident of the culture which you have absorbed.

Secular" , and scientifically rigorous, interpretations of religion are impartial. A man can be impartial as to beliefs and also sure as to personal , felt, experiences like satori.

To serve truth we have to respect reality which trumps moods, reason, and mystical insight.

There is evidence for inborn sense of justice. Very young children, almost babies, have shown that fairness is not learned but is inborn. That being the case any man who has mystical experiences under his belt may have more experience than the man who lacks it, but the mystic is not better than or wiser regarding justice than the man whose learning from experience is not mystical i.e. other than, as Greta says it, "metaphysical".

Nick , I think you and I are on the same page about secularised religion. We don't like it. Whare we differ is that you are more optimistic about religion than I am. You think that religion can be pure and unadulterated by learned prejudices and the shadow side of men. I am pessimistic about that possibility and I think that religion is always man made and therefore not from God; moreover as man made institutions go, religions are peculiarly liable to corruption and self seeking.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:00 pm Nick, there is too much dishonesty in your reply. Simply, you don't want or intend to learn anything.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:56 pm Card carrying secular intolerants

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:09 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:56 pm Card carrying secular intolerants

I haven't got mine yet, where do I apply for one? Do they do T shirts?

The horror of secular intolerance is its success in crushing this basic human need in sensitive young people too intimidated to tell them what they can do with their secular intolerance.

The combination of these two facts — the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it — constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality.

Whoever recognizes that reality recognizes also that link. Because of it, he holds every human being without any exception as something sacred to which he is bound to show respect.

This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings. Whatever formulation of belief or disbelief a man may choose to make, if his heart inclines him to feel this respect, then he in fact also recognizes a reality other than this world's reality. Whoever in fact does not feel this respect is alien to that other reality also.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 am Will they be whinging as much as you?

Bob Marley: “Only a foolish dog barks at a flying bird.”

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:08 amWill the Great Beast become the ultimate God and offer the greatest secular expression in the cause of peace?

The combination of these two facts — the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it — constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality.

This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings. Whatever formulation of belief or disbelief a man may choose to make, if his heart inclines him to feel this respect, then he in fact also recognizes a reality other than this world's reality. Whoever in fact does not feel this respect is alien to that other reality also.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:35 am

Bob Marley: “Only a foolish dog barks at a flying bird.”

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:19 pm
Go to City Hall

and demand an official ID card identifying you as a Secular Intolerant in good standing with Great Beast INC.

If they ask for a referral just say nick_A approved my acceptance.

Then give them an administrative fee of $100.

Bob Marley: “Only a foolish dog barks at a flying bird.”

Bob Marley wrote:We're sick and tired of your ism schism game

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:19 am Nick wrote:

Bob Marley: “Only a foolish dog barks at a flying bird.”

Better find something worth barking at.

Why have you not persuaded anyone here that your Bete Noire is grounded in reality?

“The greatest responsibility of all: the transmission of the mystery.” —Basarab Nicolescu

Mimetic Theory originated with Rene Girard, a French polymath whose seminal insights into the nature of human desire bridges diverse fields such as anthropology, literary criticism, religious studies, psychology, ethnology, sociology, philosophy, and others. One of the marks of genius is to notice something vitally important and seemingly obvious but which never before had been recognized as important. Rene Girard’s great discovery is a potential Rosetta Stone for the human sciences. The theory is based on the observable tendency of human beings to subconsciously imitate others and the extension of this mimesis to the realm of desire. The consequences are staggeringly profound. (My Plato interpretation draws heavily on Girard’s insight into the mimetic origins of desire.) The following is my attempt to summarize the basics of Mimetic Theory:

24. THE SOLUTION FOR MIMESIS WILL BE MIMESIS
Girard holds that human beings cannot escape their mimetic nature and that (romantic) attempts to outflank mimetic influences (e.g. Rousseau, Heidegger) are ultimately scandalous — we just end up playing the same mimetic games at a higher level. The cure for mimetically produced violence will be a mimetically transmitted desire for peace. The model/cure will have to be someone who has transcended the lure of scapegoating violence, but who?