Philosophy Now Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:22 am

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 2:42 am Encirclement would turn into a nightmare. The IDF would rather carry out an airstrike on their own soldiers rather than to allow them to surrender. The IDF soldiers are very well aware of that.

Well, yeah. Under normal circumstances soldiers fighting in a war are guaranteed certain rights under the Geneva convention if captured. The West generally adheres to that. Islamists seem to be into torture and beheading people. Don't you think that's barbaric on the part of Islamists? I mean, there's a reason why Israelis are afraid of capture. On the other hand if the Israelis capture them, then they are generally imprisoned. When people fight dirty like the Islamists seem to, it seems to me that they deserve to lose. Isn't this "7 nation army" essentially backing people who are barbaric and inhuman?

You don't know what you are talking about. It is because of Israel's Hannibal directive: Better a dead Israeli than a captive one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

Israeli spokespersons claim that IDF forces are forbidden to attempt to kill a captured soldier, rather than having him captured. Many testimonies from IDF soldiers and other sources contradict this claim and suggest that the IDF in practice adheres to the principle that a dead soldier is better than a captive soldier.[12][19]

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:01 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:22 am

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 2:42 am Encirclement would turn into a nightmare. The IDF would rather carry out an airstrike on their own soldiers rather than to allow them to surrender. The IDF soldiers are very well aware of that.

Well, yeah. Under normal circumstances soldiers fighting in a war are guaranteed certain rights under the Geneva convention if captured. The West generally adheres to that. Islamists seem to be into torture and beheading people. Don't you think that's barbaric on the part of Islamists? I mean, there's a reason why Israelis are afraid of capture. On the other hand if the Israelis capture them, then they are generally imprisoned. When people fight dirty like the Islamists seem to, it seems to me that they deserve to lose. Isn't this "7 nation army" essentially backing people who are barbaric and inhuman?

He's a sleazy pervert. Why do you care what he 'thinks'??

Because in the end it is up to each of us to make a decision on whether we stand for justice or injustice in a conflict and sometimes when we are shown the error of our thinking, we will change our minds.

So far he seems to continually fall back on the premise that right or wrong, his side has more power to win than ours, therefore it doesn't matter whether Israel is more justified or not in its actions than Hamas is. It seems to me that kind of thinking needs to be exposed in the process of determining what is right and what is wrong. It is important that wars are justified and it is important that we are not misled into supporting unjust factions in war.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:23 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:01 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:22 am

Well, yeah. Under normal circumstances soldiers fighting in a war are guaranteed certain rights under the Geneva convention if captured. The West generally adheres to that. Islamists seem to be into torture and beheading people. Don't you think that's barbaric on the part of Islamists? I mean, there's a reason why Israelis are afraid of capture. On the other hand if the Israelis capture them, then they are generally imprisoned. When people fight dirty like the Islamists seem to, it seems to me that they deserve to lose. Isn't this "7 nation army" essentially backing people who are barbaric and inhuman?

He's a sleazy pervert. Why do you care what he 'thinks'??

Because in the end it is up to each of us to make a decision on whether we stand for justice or injustice in a conflict and sometimes when we are shown the error of our thinking, we will change our minds.

So far he seems to continually fall back on the premise that right or wrong, his side has more power to win than ours, therefore it doesn't matter whether Israel is more justified or not in its actions than Hamas is. It seems to me that kind of thinking needs to be exposed in the process of determining what is right and what is wrong. It is important that wars are justified and it is important that we are not misled into supporting unjust factions in war.

You are so weak it's unbearable. Cultists sniff you out from a mile away. One little nudge and you change your standpoint by the minute. Pathetic.

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:22 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:22 am

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 2:42 am Encirclement would turn into a nightmare. The IDF would rather carry out an airstrike on their own soldiers rather than to allow them to surrender. The IDF soldiers are very well aware of that.

Well, yeah. Under normal circumstances soldiers fighting in a war are guaranteed certain rights under the Geneva convention if captured. The West generally adheres to that. Islamists seem to be into torture and beheading people. Don't you think that's barbaric on the part of Islamists? I mean, there's a reason why Israelis are afraid of capture. On the other hand if the Israelis capture them, then they are generally imprisoned. When people fight dirty like the Islamists seem to, it seems to me that they deserve to lose. Isn't this "7 nation army" essentially backing people who are barbaric and inhuman?

You don't know what you are talking about. It is because of Israel's Hannibal directive: Better a dead Israeli than a captive one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

Israeli spokespersons claim that IDF forces are forbidden to attempt to kill a captured soldier, rather than having him captured. Many testimonies from IDF soldiers and other sources contradict this claim and suggest that the IDF in practice adheres to the principle that a dead soldier is better than a captive soldier.[12][19]

Considering how hostages are treated by organizations such as Hamas, is it no wonder that soldiers are terrified of being captured by them? There have been videos on the Internet of terrorists beheading people they've captured--done by the terrorists themselves, as if a matter of pride. I recall the case of an aid worker who was captured by ISIS years ago and it was apparently pretty gruesome what was done to him. There's also a case of two Westerners who were bicycling in the Middle East to demonstrate that the people there are not as hostile as the media claims and they were captured and killed by locals. That seems unjust to me.

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:28 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:23 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:01 am

He's a sleazy pervert. Why do you care what he 'thinks'??

Because in the end it is up to each of us to make a decision on whether we stand for justice or injustice in a conflict and sometimes when we are shown the error of our thinking, we will change our minds.

So far he seems to continually fall back on the premise that right or wrong, his side has more power to win than ours, therefore it doesn't matter whether Israel is more justified or not in its actions than Hamas is. It seems to me that kind of thinking needs to be exposed in the process of determining what is right and what is wrong. It is important that wars are justified and it is important that we are not misled into supporting unjust factions in war.

You are so weak it's unbearable. Cultists sniff you out from a mile away. One little nudge and you change your standpoint by the minute. Pathetic.

I'm interested in right and wrong and in getting to the truth.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:45 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:28 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:23 am

Because in the end it is up to each of us to make a decision on whether we stand for justice or injustice in a conflict and sometimes when we are shown the error of our thinking, we will change our minds.

So far he seems to continually fall back on the premise that right or wrong, his side has more power to win than ours, therefore it doesn't matter whether Israel is more justified or not in its actions than Hamas is. It seems to me that kind of thinking needs to be exposed in the process of determining what is right and what is wrong. It is important that wars are justified and it is important that we are not misled into supporting unjust factions in war.

You are so weak it's unbearable. Cultists sniff you out from a mile away. One little nudge and you change your standpoint by the minute. Pathetic.

I'm interested in right and wrong and in getting to the truth.

No you aren't. You just want to be told what to think.

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:47 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:45 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:28 am

You are so weak it's unbearable. Cultists sniff you out from a mile away. One little nudge and you change your standpoint by the minute. Pathetic.

I'm interested in right and wrong and in getting to the truth.

You just want to be told what to think.

I want peace and an end to all the killing. That seems like a worthy goal to me.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:54 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:47 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:45 am

I'm interested in right and wrong and in getting to the truth.

You just want to be told what to think.

I want peace and an end to all the killing. That seems like a worthy goal to me.

There is always here a place of perfect peace, a forever home of perfect peace and bliss. But no one seems to want to live here.

You do not want truth, because even if the truth became known to you, you wouldn't be able to handle it.


You are a worn our record, you can't seem to see that you are already always home and always at peace, but you choose not to know this. And that is your loss.

No one else is to blame for your loss.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:33 am Considering how hostages are treated by organizations such as Hamas, is it no wonder that soldiers are terrified of being captured by them?

They are not terrified of Hamas or Hezbollah when being captured. They know that Hamas and Hezbollah will simply exchange them for Palestinian prisoners.

They are terrified of their own side when being captured because their own side will try to prevent their surrender by killing them

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:01 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:54 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:47 am

You just want to be told what to think.

I want peace and an end to all the killing. That seems like a worthy goal to me.

There is always here a place of perfect peace, a forever home of perfect peace and bliss. But no one seems to want to live here.

You do not want truth, because even if the truth became known to you, you wouldn't be able to handle it.


You are a worn our record, you can't seem to see that you are already always home and always at peace, but you choose not to know this. And that is your loss.

No one else is to blame for your loss.

None of us are going to have a home if all this turns into WW3. Care is a foundation of meaningful existence. I care about the future of humanity and I care about the future of life on Earth.

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:07 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:33 am Considering how hostages are treated by organizations such as Hamas, is it no wonder that soldiers are terrified of being captured by them?

They are not terrified of Hamas or Hezbollah when being captured. They know that Hamas and Hezbollah will simply exchange them for Palestinian prisoners.

They are terrified of their own side when being captured because their own side will try to prevent their surrender by killing them

Taking people hostage and threatening to harm them unless the hostage takers get their way doesn't seem like an ethical way of conduct to me. I'm pretty sure it is against just war theory to use hostages against their own nation and that seems pretty clearly to be Hamas' intent, and the way they operate.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:11 am

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:07 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:33 am Considering how hostages are treated by organizations such as Hamas, is it no wonder that soldiers are terrified of being captured by them?

They are not terrified of Hamas or Hezbollah when being captured. They know that Hamas and Hezbollah will simply exchange them for Palestinian prisoners.

They are terrified of their own side when being captured because their own side will try to prevent their surrender by killing them

Taking people hostage and threatening to harm them unless the hostage takers get their way doesn't seem like an ethical way of conduct to me. I'm pretty sure it is against just war theory to use hostages against their own nation and that seems pretty clearly to be Hamas' intent, and the way they operate.

What nonsense are you spouting now? We are talking about IDF soldiers who surrender and become prisoners of war (PoW). They are treated in accordance with the La Hague and Geneva conventions, which explicitly permits the exchange of prisoners. Seriously, what are you talking about?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:54 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:47 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:45 am

I'm interested in right and wrong and in getting to the truth.

You just want to be told what to think.

I want peace and an end to all the killing. That seems like a worthy goal to me.

Sure you do. That's why you change sides every five minutes

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:09 am

Fairy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:01 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:54 am

I want peace and an end to all the killing. That seems like a worthy goal to me.

There is always here a place of perfect peace, a forever home of perfect peace and bliss. But no one seems to want to live here.

You do not want truth, because even if the truth became known to you, you wouldn't be able to handle it.


You are a worn our record, you can't seem to see that you are already always home and always at peace, but you choose not to know this. And that is your loss.

No one else is to blame for your loss.

None of us are going to have a home if all this turns into WW3. Care is a foundation of meaningful existence. I care about the future of humanity and I care about the future of life on Earth.

You still don't get it do you. We are the whole ocean waving. We are the waves of the whole ocean, as waves of the whole ocean, we have no choice but to go in the direction the whole ocean is waving.

If the whole wants to annihilate itself, then it will, that's just what it will ultimately do. The same applies to the bigger picture, the Sun that sustains all life on this planet will eventually turn into a supernova and all life on this planet will die.

No one knows when life will end, it will end when it ends. And even when it ends no one will know it has ended because everything will have ended and there will be no one around to know that. Similarly, no one knows when life began, because there was no one around to know when it began.

Oh thee of little faith, no one knows anything, everything just simply is already this, unknowing, yet apparently known.

Home is everywhere, and everywhere is home, home is already this infinity for eternity. If you cannot feel that, then that's your loss.

If you prefer to see the limitation of you as being enough, and all there is, then you will never become aware of limitations complimentary unlimited opposite.

The clue is the amount of galaxies and stars there are out there in the sky that can be seen in our telescopes. But what is out there external to the observer, is already within the one observing, it's who and what we are right now, always present, always this not knowing knowing.

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:35 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:11 am

godelian wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:07 am
They are not terrified of Hamas or Hezbollah when being captured. They know that Hamas and Hezbollah will simply exchange them for Palestinian prisoners.

They are terrified of their own side when being captured because their own side will try to prevent their surrender by killing them

Taking people hostage and threatening to harm them unless the hostage takers get their way doesn't seem like an ethical way of conduct to me. I'm pretty sure it is against just war theory to use hostages against their own nation and that seems pretty clearly to be Hamas' intent, and the way they operate.

What nonsense are you spouting now? We are talking about IDF soldiers who surrender and become prisoners of war (PoW). They are treated in accordance with the La Hague and Geneva conventions, which explicitly permits the exchange of prisoners. Seriously, what are you talking about?

Well one side is not supposed to threaten its prisoners with death unless they are exchanged. Prisoners are supposed to be kept in detention until the end of hostilities. But, yes they can be exchanged. Is Hamas observing that? And, bottom line, civilians are supposed to be exempt altogether from such treatment, and yet Hamas seems to have clearly taken civilian hostages.