Philosophy Now Forum

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:46 amC'mon people, surely civilised "philosphical" members have something wise to say to archaic Muzzle Em idiocy upon our forum?

Why? Slavers gonna slave. Nuthin' to be said to 'em.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 3:10 pm

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 2:40 pm Still not getting much clarity there.

I read it somewhere, but not in this link. This link is the first thing that popped up, when I just now generously googled the words, “La Cène Sur Un Scène Sur La Seine”, for your convenience.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture ... pper-claim

I did that also and found that article. I also used a search engine that is less controlled than google, but found little clear and I don't think that article is clear.

I took a quick glance and see that the link cites sources for the title of the crappy production. No matter. The performance achieved its obviously intended blasphemy in spite of all the gaslighting …

(whether or not the “artist” wrote down the words “this is my intention,” before he or a representative from the Olympics said, “this was my intention", which is understandable seeing as how artists are often loath to say what a work means)

But ti would be lovely if a memo with “La Cène Sur Un Scène Sur La Seine” in it. I tend towards there is no way an artist and a committee in such a to be viewed by the world public could miss that. That at the very least is was accepted, knowing it would elicit the Last Supper and then the responses. I'm not sure, but that's where I lean.

But it'd be great to get something more solid.

This post on X has some solid links and quotes from the writer of the opening ceremony, the producers and participants.
The most important information, I think.
1) The writer of the show acknowledges it was meant to echo the Last Supper.
2) One of the charges here in this thread is that only stupid Catholics would see the Last Supper in that scene, thinking the world revolves around them. But there are links to mainstream French media pointing out the reference and defending it. IOW it was presented in French media by supporters of remaking the Last Supper this way. So, it's not just religious conservatives who see the Last Supper there.
3) People have been saying the scene is about Dionysus. Dionysus arrives 40 minutes later - as can be seen by it being, then, dark now.
4) Participants in the show including the woman with the halo-like headgear have said that it was meant to play on the Last Supper. IOW Apollo or Ariadne herself thought she was meant to be the Jesus figure in that tableau.

https://x.com/LauraPowellEsq/status/1818036650641080365

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 4:59 am This post on X has some solid links and quotes from the writer of the opening ceremony, the producers and participants.
The most important information, I think.
1) The writer of the show acknowledges it was meant to echo the Last Supper.
2) One of the charges here in this thread is that only stupid Catholics would see the Last Supper in that scene, thinking the world revolves around them. But there are links to mainstream French media pointing out the reference and defending it. IOW it was presented in French media by supporters of remaking the Last Supper this way. So, it's not just religious conservatives who see the Last Supper there.
3) People have been saying the scene is about Dionysus. Dionysus arrives 40 minutes later - as can be seen by it being, then, dark now.
4) Participants in the show including the woman with the halo-like headgear have said that it was meant to play on the Last Supper. IOW Apollo or Ariadne herself thought she was meant to be the Jesus figure in that tableau.

https://x.com/LauraPowellEsq/status/1818036650641080365

The Last Supper as depicted by Leonardo Da Vinci. It's a painting. Not a photo of an actual event as it was actually happening. Just thought I would clarify that.

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 6:08 am

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2024 4:59 am This post on X has some solid links and quotes from the writer of the opening ceremony, the producers and participants.
The most important information, I think.
1) The writer of the show acknowledges it was meant to echo the Last Supper.
2) One of the charges here in this thread is that only stupid Catholics would see the Last Supper in that scene, thinking the world revolves around them. But there are links to mainstream French media pointing out the reference and defending it. IOW it was presented in French media by supporters of remaking the Last Supper this way. So, it's not just religious conservatives who see the Last Supper there.
3) People have been saying the scene is about Dionysus. Dionysus arrives 40 minutes later - as can be seen by it being, then, dark now.
4) Participants in the show including the woman with the halo-like headgear have said that it was meant to play on the Last Supper. IOW Apollo or Ariadne herself thought she was meant to be the Jesus figure in that tableau.

https://x.com/LauraPowellEsq/status/1818036650641080365

The Last Supper as depicted by Leonardo Da Vinci. It's a painting. Not a photo of an actual event as it was actually happening. Just thought I would clarify that.

Yes, A mural painting. The scene in the Bible has been referred to as the Last Supper for a long time in Christianity, pre-Da Vinci. So, a real or fictional event which lasted a period of time, but the Olympic ceremony was echoing Da Vinci's version, which of course is going to be recognized by the most people, more than other depictions.

This is disgusting. Just about every time there's a parody of the painting of The Last Supper, Leonardo DaVinci isn't the one who is getting the credits.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:13 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:46 amC'mon people, surely civilised "philosphical" members have something wise to say to archaic Muzzle Em idiocy upon our forum?

Why? Slavers gonna slave. Nuthin' to be said to 'em.

Christianity is arguably even more "archaic" than Islam.

The rationale in the situation is quite clear. Ridiculing Christianity is fine because Christians accept it. Ridiculing Islam, however, is not fine because Muslims won't accept it.

It is excellent evidence for the fact that all respect is ultimately based on the fear for reprisals. Hence, insulting Islam is an accident waiting to happen. It will work until it doesn't anymore.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 3:55 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:13 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:46 amC'mon people, surely civilised "philosphical" members have something wise to say to archaic Muzzle Em idiocy upon our forum?

Why? Slavers gonna slave. Nuthin' to be said to 'em.

Christianity is arguably even more "archaic" than Islam.

The rationale in the situation is quite clear. Ridiculing Christianity is fine because Christians accept it. Ridiculing Islam, however, is not fine because Muslims won't accept it.

It is excellent evidence for the fact that all respect is ultimately based on the fear for reprisals. Hence, insulting Islam is an accident waiting to happen. It will work until it doesn't anymore.

Or, the younger religion and its adherents will also finally learn what happens when a religion's adherents engage in reprisals and what is actually the root of these reprisals: a lack of faith in the religion and in God. IOW an undealt with fear.

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 9:49 am Or, the younger religion and its adherents will also finally learn what happens when a religion's adherents engage in reprisals and what is actually the root of these reprisals: a lack of faith in the religion and in God. IOW an undealt with fear.

Concerning the older religion, the Papacy declared the following on the matter:

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-as ... pe-francis

No to insulting or mocking other people's religions, says Pope Francis

"Everyone has not only the freedom and the right but the obligation to say what he thinks for the common good ... we have the right to have this freedom openly without offending," he said.

To illustrate his point, he turned to an aide and said: "It is true that you must not react violently, but although we are good friends if (he) says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch, it's normal.

So, according to the Papacy punching is okay but not killing.

The Papacy agrees, however, that there should be reprisals. Therefore, the difference of opinion can only ever be a matter of their intensity.

In fact, the secular authorities in countries with an Islamic majority tend to apprehend the insulter and put him into protective custody as to preempt any attempt at vengeance before it is too late.

The punishment is usually some kind of fine or a short prison sentence, along with a retraction and an apology. Offenders also tend to get manhandled by fellow prisoners and guards while in detention. The solution is typically deemed satisfactory by the public.

The reason why the situation runs out of control in countries like France is because the secular authorities believe that it is okay for these people to insult religion while they simultaneously also fail to provide 24/7 protection to the culprit.

That combination clearly does not work.

That is why the French government systematically fails at their most basic job of preempting acts of vengeance against perceived criminals.

Law is not just a theoretical matter. It is also a very practical one. You can believe all you want but if a sufficiently large number of other people see it differently, then you will have to adjust or else fail miserably at your job.

Therefore, I believe that putting insulters of Islam into the protective custody of the State is necessary, while I can also see that this is not particularly needed for insulters of Christianity.

godelian wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 3:55 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:13 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:46 amC'mon people, surely civilised "philosphical" members have something wise to say to archaic Muzzle Em idiocy upon our forum?

Why? Slavers gonna slave. Nuthin' to be said to 'em.

Christianity is arguably even more "archaic" than Islam.

The rationale in the situation is quite clear. Ridiculing Christianity is fine because Christians accept it. Ridiculing Islam, however, is not fine because Muslims won't accept it.

It is excellent evidence for the fact that all respect is ultimately based on the fear for reprisals. Hence, insulting Islam is an accident waiting to happen. It will work until it doesn't anymore.

Not sure what your response has to do with my comment.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:36 am https://www.foxnews.com/media/olympics- ... etely-woke

can you feel the love?

woke left wing politics takes over the Olympics and insults Christians...

I hope a Christian medal winner figuratively spits on the anti-Christian judges and refuses the medal...

-Imp

A little sense of humor does not kill anyone!

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:44 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:36 am https://www.foxnews.com/media/olympics- ... etely-woke

can you feel the love?

woke left wing politics takes over the Olympics and insults Christians...

I hope a Christian medal winner figuratively spits on the anti-Christian judges and refuses the medal...

-Imp

A little sense of humor does not kill anyone!

ask Charlie Hebdo

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:58 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:44 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 11:36 am https://www.foxnews.com/media/olympics- ... etely-woke

can you feel the love?

woke left wing politics takes over the Olympics and insults Christians...

I hope a Christian medal winner figuratively spits on the anti-Christian judges and refuses the medal...

-Imp

A little sense of humor does not kill anyone!

ask Charlie Hebdo

-Imp

What did he say?

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:11 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:58 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:44 pm
A little sense of humor does not kill anyone!

ask Charlie Hebdo

-Imp

What did he say?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:14 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:11 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:58 pm

ask Charlie Hebdo

-Imp

What did he say?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

I mean what did he say regarding the event?