Philosophy Now Forum

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:29 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:27 amSomehow, I don't think real estate is our constrained resource.

What I mean, it's about real estate where you're "allowed" to have Free Speech and defend yourself with gun Rights.

Globalists don't want the peasants having guns anywhere on Earth. And they're going to great lengths now to make sure to disarm anybody who can possibly resist them. Once unarmed, you either Obey and kiss dirt, or you'll have their State-endorsed thugs, antifa, terrorists at your doorstep who are untouchable from the Law.

And who exactly are these (((globalists))) that have all this power?
What do you mean "untouchable from the Law"? loads of Antifa people have been arrested.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:57 am Because if you can't Blame a person, then nothing can be done to correct the error.

Really? So how did we cure polio? Who did we have to blame?

You really seem to think that humans are responsible for the perpetual mess we find ourselves in. It hasn't once crossed your mind that the residual errors remain despite our best efforts?

What use is it blaming us for not knowing how to do better?

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:57 am In fact it's assured to repeat. In this case, we see an exact repetition of history, namely mass spread of homosexuality and transexuality in an Empire as it declines (Rome, now USA).

So who is responsible for peddling this smut to kids?

Nobody in particular. It's a systemic phenomenon.

I thought you cared about freedom two posts ago. You no longer seem interested in freedom of association (who people choose to fuck in their spare time.); and freedom of thought (how people choose to self-identify); nor self-determination (what people choose to do with; or to themselves).

Sure sounds like you think some people have too much freedom (of self-expression).

There's really no need to conflate the decline of an empire with the decline of society. Empires come and go - as they always have.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 12:32 pmAnd who exactly are these (((globalists))) that have all this power?
What do you mean "untouchable from the Law"? loads of Antifa people have been arrested.

You tell me. They're your tribe members, not mine. Start with your second-cousins and work your way out.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:58 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:41 am Societal change is the answer, though it appears to be going the wrong way at the moment. But these things always go in cycles.

I'm all for change; all for change in the right direction; and for being an agent of that change.

Guns are for those who think otherwise. And for regressive changes.

It's easy to despair, I suppose, but I'm essentially an optimist. It's true that things are not going too well at the moment, but it can't last. The long term trend in history is one of progress.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:10 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:58 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:41 am Societal change is the answer, though it appears to be going the wrong way at the moment. But these things always go in cycles.

I'm all for change; all for change in the right direction; and for being an agent of that change.

Guns are for those who think otherwise. And for regressive changes.

It's easy to despair, I suppose, but I'm essentially an optimist. It's true that things are not going too well at the moment, but it can't last. The long term trend in history is one of progress.

Indeed! I guess you could call me a borderline optimist.

Just a step shy of crossing the chasm into pessimism; or worse - indifference, but no!

I hope for the best while I plan for the worst. And then the worst doesn't happen and I rejoyce.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 12:41 pmReally? So how did we cure polio? Who did we have to blame?

You really seem to think that humans are responsible for the perpetual mess we find ourselves in. It hasn't once crossed your mind that the residual errors remain despite our best efforts?

What use is it blaming us for not knowing how to do better?

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:57 am In fact it's assured to repeat. In this case, we see an exact repetition of history, namely mass spread of homosexuality and transexuality in an Empire as it declines (Rome, now USA).

So who is responsible for peddling this smut to kids?

Nobody in particular. It's a systemic phenomenon.

I thought you cared about freedom two posts ago. You no longer seem interested in freedom of association (who people choose to fuck in their spare time.); and freedom of thought (how people choose to self-identify); nor self-determination (what people choose to do with; or to themselves).

Sure sounds like you think some people have too much freedom (of self-expression).

There's really no need to conflate the decline of an empire with the decline of society. Empires come and go - as they always have.

See now you're conflating a disease and illness with human autonomy. Why would you do that?

Can people choose to make themselves ill? The answer is Yes, yes they very much can.

And then you conflate Freedom with some type of Libertarian Absolutism. I can be pro-Freedom *AND* not want LGTBQ+ Marxists teaching my children and those of my society, pornography and smut. I presume you agree...but it's hard to tell at this point. So what do you believe, after all? Is Drag-Time-Story-Hour okay and morally acceptable to you?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:12 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:10 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:58 am
I'm all for change; all for change in the right direction; and for being an agent of that change.

Guns are for those who think otherwise. And for regressive changes.

It's easy to despair, I suppose, but I'm essentially an optimist. It's true that things are not going too well at the moment, but it can't last. The long term trend in history is one of progress.

Indeed! I guess you could call me a borderline optimist.

Just a step shy of crossing the chasm into pessimism; or worse - indifference, but no!

I hope for the best while I plan for the worst.

Well, yes, life is what you make it, and all that. Better to be happy while you're at it.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:10 pmThe long term trend in history is one of progress.

Explain, what do you mean by 'progress' here?

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:14 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:10 pmThe long term trend in history is one of progress.

Explain, what do you mean by 'progress' here?

Ten thousand years ago we were scratching around in caves. Five thousand years ago we had to work all hours of the day and night to squeeze a living out of the land. A thousand years ago we were still dying of hideous diseases. A hundred years ago people still starved in the middle of the most advanced countries on earth.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:14 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:10 pmThe long term trend in history is one of progress.

Explain, what do you mean by 'progress' here?

Look at the past.
Look at the present.

Things like equality, education, poverty, luxuries, war, human rights, life expectancy, access to things you take for granted (energy, water, sanitation, medicine, internet, travel).
Look at any given dimension of your day to day existence (you are welcome to browse the various topics on https://ourworldindata.org/ )

Convince yourself of any trends in any particular direction and then answer this simple question. If you had a time machine - would you prefer to live 2000 years in the past, the present; or 2000 years in the future?

The future is (generally speaking) better than the past, and there's nothing I want less than to live in "the good old days".

That's progress.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:10 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 12:32 pmAnd who exactly are these (((globalists))) that have all this power?
What do you mean "untouchable from the Law"? loads of Antifa people have been arrested.

You tell me. They're your tribe members, not mine. Start with your second-cousins and work your way out.

So we have confirmed that you are doing another antisemitism here.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:18 pmTen thousand years ago we were scratching around in caves.

Actually we were nomadic and living on the plains as well.

Besides, we’re still scratching around in caves. These are your dimly-lit school buildings, your tedious, boring offices, your cramped cubicles.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:18 pmFive thousand years ago we had to work all hours of the day and night to squeeze a living out of the land.

Huge misconception.

Hunter-gatherers actually worked less and enjoyed more leisure time than what you may consider modern-day agriculturalists.

Farmers have less leisure time than hunter-gatherers, study suggests https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/far ... y-suggests

Marshall Sahlins estimated (1972), based on a number of reports like Richard Lee’s study of the !Kung, James Woodbury’s observations of the Hadza, and many others, that extant hunter-gatherers typically work an average of 3-5 hours per day https://www.rewild.com/in-depth/leisure.html

Like most you are buying into the sales pitch brought to you by civilization.

The hunter-gatherer lifestyle was the most sustainable lifestyle possible. It is how humans naturally developed to live. The modern fairy-tale lifestyle goes against almost everything natural. Look at all the obesity. All the depression, anxiety, and all the manufactured drugs sold to remedy those issues. All of these issues are manufactured. Both problems and solutions.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:18 pmA thousand years ago we were still dying of hideous diseases.

Coronavirus, anyone?

And now humans, some of them anyway, have the ability to implement tyrannical parameters of control whenever some bug hits. Remember all the restrictions and frenzy during Corona? All the lost wages, closed businesses? Did that not dramatically affect the livelihood of many?

So we are still dealing with natural diseases on top of man-made laboratory threats such as anthrax in addition to the draconian implementations imposed whenever one of these bugs pops up. Better? Progress?

Maia wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:18 pmA hundred years ago people still starved in the middle of the most advanced countries on earth.

Still happening and will continue to happen. Look at all the homeless in America alone. California alone.

You call this “progress”? Progress of what? What’s really progressing is technology and parameters of control. Human interaction, human kindness is not. The emphasis is placed on the paycheck, the advancement of business and the advancement of technology. This is why technology progresses but humankind and its daily interaction seemingly does not.

The society we have created, the progress we have achieved centers on flimsy, selfish convenience. We want things quick and easy. We want things consistent. We want things for what we can use them for.

Technology has spoiled us. Tech delivers things quickly, cleanly and consistently. Robotically. Now humans expect other humans to behave accordingly. Robotically. No emotion. No question. No friction. Give me the hot fries now. We are replacing ourselves, we are transforming ourselves into robots for quick convenience. Transhumanism.

No need for deadly guns or missiles. Technology, transhumanism, roboticism will be the death of us all.

Progress. Better.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 10:13 am Some claim that the West is in decline, or stagnant at best.

Very few or none, claim that the West is on the rise.


Questions to you to start this conversation/debate:

What's your position or opinion on the matter, is the West ascending, stagnant, or declining?

Should the West ascend? Automatically, people want their own society/tribe/country/party to ascend, but why? Why is your group better than..."the East" for example? Why should "Westerners" rule-over the globe, the East?

Everything has become globalized/americanized/internationalized. Should people return to Nationalism, small concentrated power in the hands of a few countries, over many others? Are the American-Anglos still in charge, or has another Tribe taken over, taken the reigns? Who "deserves" to be in charge, if not the current "powers that be"?

The trouble with this sort of question is that there is no such thing as "The West".
Furthermore, no criteria for judging decline has been offered.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:07 am

iambiguous wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 7:43 pmWell, go ahead, ask them.

Yet you didn't answer the question... are we in decline? Stagnation? On the rise?

Start with the OPs here:

https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 9#p2245896
https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtop ... 1&t=194382

From my frame of mind, in regard to moral and political value judgments, the rise and fall of "stories" -- East or West -- are rooted existentially in dasein. They are derived from the lives that we actually live out in particular worlds historically, culturally and [especially] in terms of our own uniquely personal experiences. Couple that with a world awash in contingency, chance and change and the Benjamin Button Syndrome and I now find myself "fractured and fragmented" pertaining to the "Fall of the West"?

On the other hand, some here in embracing one or another One True Path -- God, spirituality, ideology, deontology, assessment of Nature, etc., are convinced that the West really is in decline. Why? Because personally they don't like what they see around them.

What should the world revolve around instead spiritually, morally, politically, philosophically...?

Go ahead, ask them.

Hope that helped.