Page 8 of 12
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:19 am
by Wizard22
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:16 amPresumably people pick up on the non-visual cues.
Yes, in buildings, people presume there is a glass pane in windows and door frames, or glasses you wear on your eyes. Again as I mentioned, dirt, blemishes, dust gives away most glass panes. Most are dirty enough that people recognize them without walking into them. But a pristinely cleaned pane of glass is dangerous. Clean panes are walked into quite frequently at malls, shopping centers, those types of places.
Another cue is that signs are usually posted onto clean glass panes so people notice them as well.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:20 am
by Iwannaplato
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:16 am
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:14 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 9:22 amAssuming it was clean, do people only perceive glass because of non-visual cues?
Assuming it's a clean sheet of glass, yes people don't really "know" it's there until they get close to it.
When you're really close to a clean sheet of glass, there is small enough disruption and refraction to "see" it.
Presumably people pick up on the non-visual cues.
or visual context clues. Window frames, seeing into the bank beside the doors of the bank, one can assume it's not just air, given that it's a bank. But humans (and birds and dogs, for example) often hurl themselves into bus stop glass and door glass and window glass.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:21 am
by Skepdick
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 9:58 am
Braille is a tactile script. It can't be read from a screen without a Braille display. It doesn't even have a one-to-one relationship with normal English text, either.
Surely that's not a problem?
Written English doesn't have a one-to-one relationship with spoken English either.
English is not a phonetic language.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:22 am
by Maia
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:19 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:16 amPresumably people pick up on the non-visual cues.
Yes, in buildings, people presume there is a glass pane in windows and door frames, or glasses you wear on your eyes. Again as I mentioned, dirt, blemishes, dust gives away most glass panes. Most are dirty enough that people recognize them without walking into them. But a pristinely cleaned pane of glass is dangerous. Clean panes are walked into quite frequently at malls, shopping centers, those types of places.
Another cue is that signs are usually posted onto clean glass panes so people notice them as well.
I'm assuming that sighted people, even without realising it, probably use a bit of echo-location. Glass has a very distinct sound to it.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:22 am
by Maia
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:20 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:16 am
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:14 am
Assuming it's a clean sheet of glass, yes people don't really "know" it's there until they get close to it.
When you're really close to a clean sheet of glass, there is small enough disruption and refraction to "see" it.
Presumably people pick up on the non-visual cues.
or visual context clues. Window frames, seeing into the bank beside the doors of the bank, one can assume it's not just air, given that it's a bank. But humans (and birds and dogs, for example) often hurl themselves into bus stop glass and door glass and window glass.
Yes, that too.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:24 am
by Maia
Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:21 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 9:58 am
Braille is a tactile script. It can't be read from a screen without a Braille display. It doesn't even have a one-to-one relationship with normal English text, either.
Surely that's not a problem?
Written English doesn't have a one-to-one relationship with spoken English either.
English is not a phonetic language.
No, the big problem is that you can't read Braille off a screen by touching the screen.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:29 am
by Wizard22
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:22 amI'm assuming that sighted people, even without realising it, probably use a bit of echo-location. Glass has a very distinct sound to it.
There is a little bit with glass. Obviously it sounds like you're enclosed when surrounded in a glass room. Glass acts as a thin wall for sound. I'm sure you can tell the difference being enclosed by a glass room than otherwise not.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:29 am
by Skepdick
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:24 am
No, the big problem is that you can't read Braille off a screen by touching the screen.
Yes, but Braille is nothing more than an encoding schema.
2 columns.
3 rows.
By simply telling you that there's an embossing in row 1, column 1 that's the letter "a", no?
So any software (e.g JAWS) which can do pattern/image recognition and it can recognize the pattern "A" visually should also recognize the pattern ⠁ (embrossing in row 1, column 1).
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:30 am
by Maia
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:29 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:22 amI'm assuming that sighted people, even without realising it, probably use a bit of echo-location. Glass has a very distinct sound to it.
There is a little bit with glass. Obviously it sounds like you're enclosed when surrounded in a glass room. Glass acts as a thin wall for sound. I'm sure you can tell the difference being enclosed by a glass room than otherwise not.
Yes, absolutely. I could even tell you the size of it.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:31 am
by Iwannaplato
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:24 am
No, the big problem is that you can't read Braille off a screen by touching the screen.
I see there are Braille displays one can attach to computers, and these have refreshable screens. They are pricey though, very pricey.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:32 am
by Wizard22
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:30 amYes, absolutely. I could even tell you the size of it.
If you walk into a room you haven't been in before, can you recognize its size or the size of its windows by sound alone?
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:33 am
by Maia
Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:29 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:24 am
No, the big problem is that you can't read Braille off a screen by touching the screen.
Yes, but Braille is nothing more than an encoding schema.
2 columns.
3 rows.
By simply telling you that there's an embossing in row 1, column 1 that's the letter "a", no?
So any software (e.g JAWS) which can do pattern/image recognition and it can recognize the pattern "A" visually should also recognize the pattern ⠁ (embrossing in row 1, column 1).
The purpose of any screenreader is to convert written text to synthesised speech. If people used Braille fonts to write text, there would be a call for it. And perhaps there even is such a thing, though its use would be extremely limited.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:34 am
by Maia
Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:31 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:24 am
No, the big problem is that you can't read Braille off a screen by touching the screen.
I see there are Braille displays one can attach to computers, and these have refreshable screens. They are pricey though, very pricey.
Yes, very pricey.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:36 am
by Maia
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:32 am
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:30 amYes, absolutely. I could even tell you the size of it.
If you walk into a room you haven't been in before, can you recognize its size or the size of its windows by sound alone?
Yes, I could tell you if there were any windows or not, or if the walls were bear brick, wallpaper, wood, and so on.
Re: What does blue look like to a person who is colorblind
Posted: Sun May 28, 2023 10:37 am
by Skepdick
Maia wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:33 am
The purpose of any screenreader is to convert written text to synthesised speech. If people used Braille fonts to write text, there would be a call for it. And perhaps there even is such a thing, though its use would be extremely limited.
Right, but specifically the way computers work written text isn't encoded as images in the computer's own memory. They are encoded in binary.
The letter "a" is actually encoded as 1000001 (in binary) which is 65 (in decimal).
In the ASCII table 65 is the code for the English letter "a".
In the Braille table embrossing in row 1, column 1 is the code for the English letter "a".
So there's definitely a 1:1 mapping between the alphabets/symbols.