Philosophy Now Forum

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:25 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:23 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:23 pm

Sorry no, I don't have a picture.

Then how do you know it "spirals"?

I've read a lot of reports from dowsers.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:26 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:25 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:23 pm

Then how do you know it "spirals"?

I've read a lot of reports from dowsers.

How does a dowser determine that the energy "spirals"?

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:24 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:23 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:20 pm

I held the dowsing rods in my hands and walked forwards. When I crossed a spot with an underground stream they twisted. I had no idea the stream was there, and (being blind) had no visual clues either.

How many times has that happened? Was this part of a demonstration being conducted by someone who claimed to be knowledgable about dowsing?

It was conducted by someone who knew where the stream was. I have no reason to believe they were an expert.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:30 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:24 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:23 pm

How many times has that happened? Was this part of a demonstration being conducted by someone who claimed to be knowledgable about dowsing?

It was conducted by someone who knew where the stream was. I have no reason to believe they were an expert.

So they knew where the stream was. Describe what happened with the dowser when you crossed the stream? Where did you get the dowser from? Was it handed to you by the person who knew where the stream was?

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:15 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:12 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:08 pm

The word goes back into proto-Indo-European, related to vermin, which comes from Latin.

Apparently proto-indo-european originated in the east according to some experts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Ind ... ge%20(PIE).

I'm still not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Nowhere near as far as China.

All I'm suggesting is that a dragon, for example, is inspired by something other than literary invention.

R1b and R1a
According to three autosomal DNA studies, haplogroups R1b and R1a, now the most common in Europe (R1a is also very common in South Asia) would have expanded from the Pontic steppes, along with the Indo-European languages; they also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans, which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European languages.[31][32][33] Studies which analysed ancient human remains in Ireland and Portugal suggest that R1b was introduced in these places along with autosomal DNA from the Pontic steppes.[34][35]

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:35 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:15 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:12 pm

Apparently proto-indo-european originated in the east according to some experts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Ind ... ge%20(PIE).

I'm still not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Nowhere near as far as China.

All I'm suggesting is that a dragon, for example, is inspired by something other than literary invention.

Actually according to one genetic study, proto-indo-european potentially originated in southeast Asia, or otherwise had contact with the region, even FURTHER from Europe than China.

R1b and R1a
According to three autosomal DNA studies, haplogroups R1b and R1a, now the most common in Europe (R1a is also very common in South Asia) would have expanded from the Pontic steppes, along with the Indo-European languages; they also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans, which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European languages.[31][32][33] Studies which analysed ancient human remains in Ireland and Portugal suggest that R1b was introduced in these places along with autosomal DNA from the Pontic steppes.[34][35]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Ind ... ge%20(PIE).

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:34 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:30 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:24 pm

It was conducted by someone who knew where the stream was. I have no reason to believe they were an expert.

So they knew where the stream was. Describe what happened with the dowser when you crossed the stream? Where did you get the dowser from? Was it handed to you by the person who knew where the stream was?

The dowser is the person, not the rod, which in this case, was two bent bits of metal. You can also use twigs or pendulums.

The rods were handed out by the warden of the stone circle I was visiting. I was then told to walk in a straight line in a certain direction, but no further clues were given than that. When I crossed the stream the rods twisted in my hands, pointing inwards.

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:36 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:35 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:15 pm

Nowhere near as far as China.

All I'm suggesting is that a dragon, for example, is inspired by something other than literary invention.

Actually according to one genetic study, proto-indo-european potentially originated in southeast Asia, or otherwise had contact with the region, even FURTHER from Europe than China.

R1b and R1a
According to three autosomal DNA studies, haplogroups R1b and R1a, now the most common in Europe (R1a is also very common in South Asia) would have expanded from the Pontic steppes, along with the Indo-European languages; they also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans, which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European languages.[31][32][33] Studies which analysed ancient human remains in Ireland and Portugal suggest that R1b was introduced in these places along with autosomal DNA from the Pontic steppes.[34][35]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Ind ... ge%20(PIE).

That's Wikipedia for you. Linguistically, such an assertion is ridiculous, to be honest.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:38 pm Humans originated in one tiny region of Africa. It stands to reason that myths and folklore are going to have common elements world wide.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:39 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:34 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:30 pm

So they knew where the stream was. Describe what happened with the dowser when you crossed the stream? Where did you get the dowser from? Was it handed to you by the person who knew where the stream was?

The dowser is the person, not the rod, which in this case, was two bent bits of metal. You can also use twigs or pendulums.

The rods were handed out by the warden of the stone circle I was visiting. I was then told to walk in a straight line in a certain direction, but no further clues were given than that. When I crossed the stream the rods twisted in my hands, pointing inwards.

So I can just pick up two bits of metal, twigs, or pendulums right now and they will twist in my hands when I cross the sewer out front of my home? Should I give it a try? Can you explain a little more about it? How did you hold onto the pieces of metal? One in each hand pointing inward, outward? Can you show me a picture of how to operate them?

There's something very phony sounding about these "dowsers".

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:40 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:36 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:35 pm

Actually according to one genetic study, proto-indo-european potentially originated in southeast Asia, or otherwise had contact with the region, even FURTHER from Europe than China.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Ind ... ge%20(PIE).

That's Wikipedia for you. Linguistically, such an assertion is ridiculous, to be honest.

What's more ridiculous about that than drawing the conclusion that dowsing proves the existence of something called "earth energy" that "spirals?"

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:40 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:38 pm Humans originated in one tiny region of Africa. It stands to reason that myths and folklore are going to have common elements world wide.

Then you would need to show it, with evidence. Not just isolated motifs, like dragons, but common stories. If you can't, then it's a very weak theory.

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:44 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:39 pm

Maia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:34 pm

The dowser is the person, not the rod, which in this case, was two bent bits of metal. You can also use twigs or pendulums.

The rods were handed out by the warden of the stone circle I was visiting. I was then told to walk in a straight line in a certain direction, but no further clues were given than that. When I crossed the stream the rods twisted in my hands, pointing inwards.

So I can just pick up two bits of metal, twigs, or pendulums right now and they will twist in my hands when I cross the sewer out front of my home? Should I give it a try? Can you explain a little more about it? How did you hold onto the pieces of metal? One in each hand pointing inward, outward? Can you show me a picture of how to operate them?

There's something very phony sounding about these "dowsers".

Yes, please try it. I was quite shocked myself, as to the strength of the reaction.

When I was walking the rods were pointing forwards, then they suddenly twisted inwards. I held them in my fists.

No, sorry, I can't show you any pictures.