Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 pm Not COVID-panicking?

Who remembers how well Trump calmly dealt with the pandemic? One Week Later

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:33 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:25 pm 'Losing' Afghanistan? I wasn't aware that the US ever owned it.

Well, if you don't regard as letting rabid Islamists control the country, while handing them a ton of top-calls military equipment, then abandoning your allies to be bombed, tortured and killed, disgracing yourself in front of the international community and letting desperate locals fall from the winds of your plane as you leave, I guess Biden didn't "lose" anything. Point taken.

How do you know he didn't take any bribes?

Well, maybe he did...but we know he didn't take the alleged Russia bribes, and that "the Big Guy's" son took all kinds of perks from the Ukraine and China...all that's public knowledge now. So the bribes we know about area all on the Biden side. If you've got some proof on the other side, why not air it? Are you protecting Trump, now?

WTF? Most of this is meaningless. I would defend Trump if he did something I thought warranted it. I don't have a stake in it. I'm not a one-eyed moron like most of the posters here. But you have to admit your list is pathetic. If you had said things like 'better, more accessible health care for everyone' then that would be a major plus for any leader, as one example. Health is a big deal to your average normal human being.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:19 pmI think you've got to give him credit for nearly doing so [finishing the wall] ...

54 miles of new barrier. 54 of the longest miles the world has ever seen ... You have no idea how long the southern border is, have you Manny?

And that's not the only thing about which you have no idea.

How big is Trump's Wall? 15 miles.

How big does he think it is ? 1,933 miles

In fairness I defend Trump he chose a good tailor.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:51 pm This might be a good place to outline the good Trump did.

Wall?

Failed to build a structure to keep economic and just normal people attempting to run from a country that has been turned into a cartel murderous battlefield by their northern neighbour - USA.
With the USA elites assisting importation of cocaine to the masses, and at the same time benefiting by their arms\ammo companies selling their wares back to Mexican cartels.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 pmEconomy?

What? Prior to Covid, ALL nations were doing very well.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 pm Not COVID-panicking?

Yep, ignoring health advice of actual scientists (and being caught out having an audible chat that he knew it was FAR more serious than a common cold\flu) - causing untold amounts of death that could have been prevented and overloading the health system.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 pmISIL? Not losing Afghanistan to terrorists? Not causing wars?

Prior to Biden winning office, Trump had already directed that US military would withdraw from Afghanistan - Biden had to go along with it, otherwise the entire military that (for good reason wanted to say fuck this, lets go home) would be against him.

Ultimately leaving the shit show seen on TV, and now the Taliban are removing all rights for women and girls education - after all those years, TRUMP threw it down the drain because he knew the military over there were fucking sick of it. More importantly (to TRUMP) he wanted the vote of them and their families - nothing altruistic EVER came from this ***t.
He even made that effort to stand with a bible to get the indoctrinated masses on side (HE BELIEVES IN NO GOD BUT WEALTH AND LOOK AT HIS PRIOR FRAUDULENT ACTIVITY - ripping off investors into the big "Trump" brandname - check out the shit early that he was doing in Moscow with such investment fraud.)

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 pmNot taking bribes, or covering for a drug-addled son? Allowing oil to be pumped?

Allowing native 'Indian' Alaskans and the environment to be fucked over for his elite mates?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 pmNot having a supply-chain crisis? Suppressing CRT propagandizing in public schools? Keeping Iran and China on the back foot?

He fucked up the European led Iran nuclear deal - now they are going full steam ahead with enrichement ffs. He's a dickhead.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 pmJust suggestions: if I were American, that's what I'd be inclined to think might be good.

That's because (even though u r intelligent) you are watching the wrong TV deliverance of information rather than broadening your approach to world news.

I know U don't live in US, but ffs they need something similar to Australian (ABC) paid by the Oz tax payer - no news service is perfect, but at least they hold our government to account - and mostly in an unbiased way.

I see no point to arguing about any of the above, because no matter which one we pick, it's clear that the Democrats have done far worse, by any possibile metric. So if Trump were terrible at all of them, he would still be immeasurably better than what the Biden crew has done.

And that's really clear to anybody. But the failure to realize that is a very graphic illustration of the topic of this very thread, TDS. It seems that there is no failure on the part of the current admin, be it ever so dismal, disastrous and awful, that will not be overlooked in order to fulminate against Trump.

It's really extraordinary. I've seen nothing like it, in regard to any American president. But he's far from the most militaristic, the most venial, the most salacious, the least intelligent or the most incompetent president the country's had. And he's a leftover Democrat. So why the hatred?

When I ask, people always refer to a comment he is said to have made about groping women, some years ago. And by all accounts, it was a disgusting comment, unworthy of anybody. Fair enough: if it's true, he's a 'potty mouth,' and maybe an exploiter of women by leveraging wealth. There is no end of such creatures in Hollywood, which is all Democrat. However, Clinton was a serial sexual predator, and nobody seems to care (just like nobody wants to know who's on the Epstein list, it seems, even if Trump turns out to be one of them...curious). Carter or Biden are in a race for the most clueless and incompetent president ever, and nobody even remembers Carter. Was Reagan or Nixon, or maybe Roosevelt or Kennedy the most militaristic? All were far more than Trump ever was.

It just doesn't make sense for Democrats to hate this creature of the media, this rich liberal, this former generous Democrat donor, this very blustering but ultimately undistinguished person. Why would they be freaking out and dying over Trump?

Does anybody have a theory? I mean, one that doesn't rely on us having to ignore completely all facts like the above.

(I suspect not: I suspect I'm just going to get a bunch of foaming like the above. But it's an honest question, and I'l actually like to know the answer, if anybody has control of their emotions sufficiently to provide one.)

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm But it's an honest question, and I'l actually like to know the answer, if anybody has control of their emotions sufficiently to provide one.)

Me too!

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:13 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm But it's an honest question, and I'l actually like to know the answer, if anybody has control of their emotions sufficiently to provide one.)

Me too!

Me too?

IC just wimped out of addressing all of my dissection of his TRUMP comments...Y?
Because he knows he hasn't resourced the info required for an argument that he could plausibly win in support of Trump (let's just accept the fact that U people on the daft side of the pond, have media that is privatised and biased to make comprehending NE THING rather tainted.) ...tune in to what you want to believe...(RIDICULOUS)

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm So why the hatred?

You had the answer on page 1, post 2

mickthinks wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:45 pm The Left hates Trump.

No it doesn't. If anything, it is the other way around.

There rest of this thread has been right-wing wingnuts wasting their own time.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:32 pm IC just wimped out of addressing all of my dissection of his TRUMP comments...Y?

Because there isn’t a single dimension you mention in which Biden isn’t worse, and yet you have no concern about him.

So I think your hatred of Trump is not actually grounded in impartial reason, but it partisan antipathies. So it’s not really worthy of comment. You don’t mean, “I’m concerned that an unscrupulous and incompetent president once was in America.” If you meant that, you’d be even more concerned about Biden. What you mean is, that for some reason I’m asking you to explain, you just hate Trump, regardless of what he personally is or is not.

I just want to understand that craziness, that partisanship, because “TDS” is not really a diagnosis. It’s just a label. But it really seems to be the label of something you’re actually demonstrating in your response.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
Does anybody have a theory?

Yes. He was/is dirty. There is no reason to compare him to anyone else. He was/is dirty on an absolute basis. On the basis of true facts that you’ve missed. I’ll take one objective fact that you didn’t see, one that wasn’t reported by your news source(s), and one that you mused might be true although it certainly is true.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
When I ask, people always refer to a comment he is said to have made about groping women, some years ago. And by all accounts, it was a disgusting comment, unworthy of anybody. Fair enough: if it's true, he's a 'potty mouth,' and maybe an exploiter of women by leveraging wealth.

If only you had received a complete coverage of the news, you could have heard ex-President Trump, in his own words, in his own voice, saying that it’s OK to “grab” beauty pageant contestants “by the pussy”, you would know that there was no “if” about it, that it was indeed true, and that it wasn’t just something he was said to have uttered. You would know that “groping” is too polite a word to be associated with his statement. You would see that “unworthy” and “potty mouth” are too gentle to be used to describe his words. It was beyond “disgusting”.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
Does anybody have a theory? I mean, one that doesn't rely on us having to ignore completely all facts like the above.

Yes , I have a theory why Trump is hated, and by extension perhaps his followers as well. It’s because the delusional ignoring of some objective facts is beyond exasperating.

I say all of this dispassionately and in complete control of my emotions. If you do the same you will readily admit that the fact that something happened, rather than was only said to have happened, is one example of your innocent break from reality.

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
Does anybody have a theory?

Yes. He was/is dirty. There is no reason to compare him to anyone else.

Dirty? Please be specific: in what way(s)?

But yes, there is very much a reason to compare him to Biden: he’s the alternative, even now. So it’s exactly what voters are supposed to do, even if I’m not.

But there’s an additional reason: that is, that anybody who is genuinely concerned about American politics has to be at least AS concerned about the current situation of them as of anything in the bygone administration. And if they’re not, that tells you everything you need to know about their real motives — they don’t actually care what happens to the U.S. or its allies, no matter how bad it gets…they just hate Trump.

And I want to know why.

He was/is dirty on an absolute basis. On the basis of true facts that you’ve missed. I’ll take one objective fact that you didn’t see, one that wasn’t reported by your news source(s), and one that you mused might be true although it certainly is true.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
When I ask, people always refer to a comment he is said to have made about groping women, some years ago. And by all accounts, it was a disgusting comment, unworthy of anybody. Fair enough: if it's true, he's a 'potty mouth,' and maybe an exploiter of women by leveraging wealth.

If only you had received a complete coverage of the news, you could have heard ex-President Trump,

Your objection is pointless.

I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
Does anybody have a theory?

Yes. He was/is dirty. There is no reason to compare him to anyone else. He was/is dirty on an absolute basis. On the basis of true facts that you’ve missed. I’ll take one objective fact that you didn’t see, one that wasn’t reported by your news source(s), and one that you mused might be true although it certainly is true.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
When I ask, people always refer to a comment he is said to have made about groping women, some years ago. And by all accounts, it was a disgusting comment, unworthy of anybody. Fair enough: if it's true, he's a 'potty mouth,' and maybe an exploiter of women by leveraging wealth.

If only you had received a complete coverage of the news, you could have heard ex-President Trump, in his own words, in his own voice, saying that it’s OK to “grab” beauty pageant contestants “by the pussy”, you would know that there was no “if” about it, that it was indeed true, and that it wasn’t just something he was said to have uttered. You would know that “groping” is too polite a word to be associated with his statement. You would see that “unworthy” and “potty mouth” are too gentle to be used to describe his words. It was beyond “disgusting”.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
Does anybody have a theory? I mean, one that doesn't rely on us having to ignore completely all facts like the above.

Yes , I have a theory why Trump is hated, and by extension perhaps his followers as well. It’s because the delusional ignoring of some objective facts is beyond exasperating.

I say all of this dispassionately and in complete control of my emotions. If you do the same you will readily admit that the fact that something happened, rather than was only said to have happened, is one example of your innocent break from reality.

Actually dubya Bush was far more hateable. Men in general talk about women in a disgusting way when there are no women around. Women know this, so no need to act all self-rightous and 'knight in shining armour' on our behalf. Women throw themselves at men like Trump. They want 'respect' as well as his money?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:40 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
Does anybody have a theory?

Yes. He was/is dirty. There is no reason to compare him to anyone else. He was/is dirty on an absolute basis. On the basis of true facts that you’ve missed. I’ll take one objective fact that you didn’t see, one that wasn’t reported by your news source(s), and one that you mused might be true although it certainly is true.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
When I ask, people always refer to a comment he is said to have made about groping women, some years ago. And by all accounts, it was a disgusting comment, unworthy of anybody. Fair enough: if it's true, he's a 'potty mouth,' and maybe an exploiter of women by leveraging wealth.

If only you had received a complete coverage of the news, you could have heard ex-President Trump, in his own words, in his own voice, saying that it’s OK to “grab” beauty pageant contestants “by the pussy”, you would know that there was no “if” about it, that it was indeed true, and that it wasn’t just something he was said to have uttered. You would know that “groping” is too polite a word to be associated with his statement. You would see that “unworthy” and “potty mouth” are too gentle to be used to describe his words. It was beyond “disgusting”.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
Does anybody have a theory? I mean, one that doesn't rely on us having to ignore completely all facts like the above.

Yes , I have a theory why Trump is hated, and by extension perhaps his followers as well. It’s because the delusional ignoring of some objective facts is beyond exasperating.

I say all of this dispassionately and in complete control of my emotions. If you do the same you will readily admit that the fact that something happened, rather than was only said to have happened, is one example of your innocent break from reality.

Actually dubya Bush was far more hateable. Men in general talk about women in a disgusting way when there are no women around. Women know this, so no need to act all self-rightous and 'knight in shining armour' on our behalf.

Thanks, Veg. I didn’t mean to come off sounding all knight-like. I would’ve said much the same if he were bragging about touching boys by the scrotum.

As for the comparison to dubya, there may be many who are worse, I’ll agree, but it doesn’t make Trump’s behavior any less despicable. But I see your point.