Are there .5% or 35 million Active Killers at Present?

[Skepdick]

Red is actually an electromagnetic wavelength/frequency of a certain range.

Waves and frequencies Ahhh, a Platonist!

[tillingborn]

Is the output a unit of wavelength or a unit of "red" ?

No Skepdick, red is the human experience; as per your demand:

Scientific measurements do one thing and one thing alone. They predict future human experience.

So a spectrometer measures my experience?

How? You are measuring the object, not my experiences.

Sophistry overdrive

Ah, you're one of those who thinks emojis make things true. I don't know about the machine, you are quite right that it is a black box, but I can imagine that it could be rigged to print out 'red', if there were any reason for you to know in advance what colour you are about to experience.

[Terrapin Station]

No Skepdick, red is the human experience; as per your demand:

So a spectrometer measures my experience?

How? You are measuring the object, not my experiences.

Sophistry overdrive

Ah, you're one of those who thinks emojis make things true. I don't know about the machine, you are quite right that it is a black box, but I can imagine that it could be rigged to print out 'red', if there were any reason for you to know in advance what colour you are about to experience.

That's all irrelevant to what I was asking anyway. Again, there's no need to argue over the various issues re measurement devices. The task was simply to show one for morality. Just showing one would be sufficient.

[tillingborn]

That's all irrelevant to what I was asking anyway.

Ah well, I'll take my leave then.

[Terrapin Station]

The task is to show something like this:



But where it's an actual device that somehow reacts to extramental properties of some sort.

[Skepdick]

That's all irrelevant to what I was asking anyway. Again, there's no need to argue over the various issues re measurement devices. The task was simply to show one for morality. Just showing one would be sufficient.

I can show you 8 billion of them. Humans.

Man is the measure of all things.

Now, are you going to show me even one for "red" ?

[Skepdick]

The task is to show something like this:



But where it's an actual device that somehow reacts to extramental properties of some sort.

Sure. Do you want me to stick a screen on my face, or is it sufficient for me to communicate my reading to you in English?

[Terrapin Station]

That's all irrelevant to what I was asking anyway.

Ah well, I'll take my leave then.

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't bother. I'm saying that the issues he's bringing up with measurement devices are irrelevant. We can accept those issues. The task is simply to show an extramental measuring device that's somehow registering/reacting to whatever the extramental moral whatevers are supposed to be.

[Skepdick]

The task is to show something like this:



But where it's an actual device that somehow reacts to extramental properties of some sort.

Also, I can't stress enough the fact that you are a fucking retard with a PhD who keeps missing the significance of the symbols, labels and calibration.

What happens if I switch the green and red labels on your machine?
What if I took the labels off entirely? What does it mean when the needle moves on a machine with no labels?

How would you tell if your machine is actually giving the "correct" reading?

[tillingborn]

Man is the measure of all things.

Except redness apparently.

[Skepdick]

Except redness apparently.

That's what the Terrapin Station is trying to convince you of.

Red is objectively red. There is a fact of the matter.

Me, I am pointing out that objectivity only exists once you accept the axioms (unquestionable truths) of science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... m_of_Units

[tillingborn]

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't bother. I'm saying that the issues he's bringing up with measurement devices are irrelevant. We can accept those issues. The task is simply to show an extramental measuring device that's somehow registering/reacting to whatever the extramental moral whatevers are supposed to be.

Skepdick could start a fight in an empty room. I think the grown ups know no such device exists.

[Skepdick]

Skepdick could start a fight in an empty room. I think the grown ups know no such device exists.

You have me figured backwards. Skepdick keeps pointing out that the majority of Philosophical disagreements are about denotation.

Those are precisely the disagreements which are trivially resolvable. And yet Philosophers choose to continue playing that silly language game.

If you are arguing over whether a particular thing is "red" or "blue", or whether China is "communist" or "capitalist" that's the same argument. You are fighting over "accurately describing" X.

Fuck it! Lets go with your description. Everything is whatever you say it is. The state of affairs is precisely as you describe it.

Now what?

[tillingborn]

Except redness apparently.

That's what the Terrapin Station is trying to convince you of.

Red is objectively red. There is a fact of the matter.

Me, I am pointing out that objectivity only exists once you accept the axioms (unquestionable truths) of science.

As I understand him, Terrapin Station is saying there are features of the world that are independent of human experience, but that we nonetheless experience in human ways. That seems to me an entirely reasonable analysis.

[Skepdick]

As I understand him, Terrapin Station is saying there are features of the world that are independent of human experience, but that we nonetheless experience in human ways. That seems to me an entirely reasonable analysis.

That's isomorphic to anything anybody has ever said about anything.

It's isomorphic to solipsism.
It's isomorphic to dualism.
It's isomorphic to realism.
It's isomorphic to phenomenology.
it's isomorphic to being a brain in a vat.

It's describing being using a different vocabulary. It's just self-contextualisation.

It leads nowhere.

I shall translate it in a different manner. I am not skeptical of truth. I am skeptical that it has any utility once attained.

What is it for?