bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:47 am
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:19 pm
That is the simple one. If there is a God then this means that there was a point that there was God and nothing else.
If the word 'was' here is replaced with the 'is' word, then this premise here is true.
Or, the 'point' word just refers to HERE-NOW, then the premise here is also true.
Here I am talking about the beginning which deals with creation rather than now which deals with sustaining.
You, OBVIOUSLY, STILL do NOT 'get it'.
That is; It is LOGICALLY and EMPIRICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for there to be a beginning of Everything and for a beginning of Creation.
Everything has ALWAYS existed, just in a CONTINUALLY changing shape and form.
It is because of 'cause and effect', itself, that there can NOT be a beginning to Everything and to Creation, themselves.
Because of what the Universe is fundamentally made up of, which effects and thus causes the way thee Universe works, then thee Universe could NOT have begun and thus has ALWAYS existed.
Now, because of the fundamental Nature of thee Universe, Itself, and the way that thee Universe NATURALLY works, EVERY action causes a reaction, and EVERY reaction is just another action causing another reaction, so on and so on, FOREVER and ALWAYS.
This ALWAYS REACTING action-reaction process is just One CONTINUAL 'Reaction', which is; ALWAYS and FOREVER, ETERNAL and INFINITE, is also more commonly known as Creation, Itself.
Through this ALWAYS Reacting process of thee Universe, Itself, thee Universe is thus actually Creating, Itself, ALWAYS (and in ALL ways some will say). And also through this ALWAYS reacting, and thus constantly-changing process, EVERY 'thing' that is created is ALSO Evolving, and even through this constant process of change, and Creation, thee Universe, Itself, is evolving.
Now, I suggest finding FAULT in this and talking about and critiquing 'that', instead of just talking about some 'thing', which is just an IMPOSSIBILITY anyway.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:47 am
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:19 pm
God then creates everything.
It the word 'creates' here is replaced with the words 'is creating, then the premise here is actually true.
No. I am talking about the beginning rather than now.
BUT, thee One and ONLY 'beginning' is NOW.
It is a LOGICAL and EMPIRICAL IMPOSSIBILITY for there to be ANY other, so called, "beginning".
Just because the words 'in the beginning' exist IN scientific AND IN religious literature and text, this is NO WAY means that there was nor ever even could be 'a beginning' to Everything.
WHY thee ASSUMPTION and/or BELIEF that there is and/or was 'a beginning' to Everything is from a direct correlation between human beings themselves, how the brain works, and how human beings LOOK AT and SEE things.
Because human beings, themselves, individually and collectively came into being, and thus has 'a beginning', then they inadvertently ASSUME that so MUST EVERY thing else, including thee Creation and/or thee Universe, themselves. Therefore, these human beings LOOK FOR, and LOOK AT and SEE things from this perspective that there MUST BE 'a beginning' to Everything.
So, when they SEE the words 'in the beginning' in scientific literature and/or in religious literature, then they TAKE THIS to MEAN that there WAS and MUST OF BEEN 'a beginning' to Everything.
And now that they have this ASSUMPTION, and for some, this BELIEF, then this becomes the ONLY way they can and do LOOK AT and SEE things.
As CLEARLY EVIDENCE and PROVEN throughout human history.
By the way, when 'you' learn and understand EXACTLY how the Mind and the brain work, then ALL-OF-THIS just becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR and thus just PLAIN OBVIOUS, with an underlying annoyance of how I just did NOT SEE thee PLAIN and SIMPLE Truth, which has been in front of me ALWAYS, previously.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:47 am
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:19 pm
But time is needed for the process of creation, God alone to God plus creation is a temporal process.
But being 'in creation' ALWAYS is a premise which is true.
I am talking about the begininng.
SO AM I, if you EVER decide to LISTEN.
For your information, I am EXPLAINING and SHOW WHY YOUR 'beginning' IS a logical AND empirical IMPOSSIBILITY.
And I am SHOWING and PROVING this by SHOWING and REVEALING what is NOT JUST POSSIBLE but what is ACTUALLY thee Truth and REALLY DOES HAPPEN.
You are just STUCK in your currently held BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS, so you are being PREVENTED from HEARING and SEEING what 'it' IS that I am actually SAYING and SHOWING/REVEALING.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:47 am
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:19 pm
This means that God has to have time in order to create time too.
Time is NOT a physical thing that is NOR could be created.
Time is a substance. At least within general relativity.
This is what is SAID to be TRUE.
Now, is EVERY thing that is SAID to be TRUE, actually True, or Right, or Correct?
Also, REMEMBER 'general relativity' CONFLICTS with OTHER human being constructed 'theories', which ALSO were derived from ASSUMPTIONS and/or BELIEFS as well.
The reason WHY ALL of these 'theories' conflict with each other and can NOT be combined with one another is because within them ALL are things that are just PLAIN WRONG and NOT CORRECT, including the 'theory' of 'general relativity'.
Now, if 'you' or ANY other human being wants to make the CLAIM that 'time' is a substance, then VERY SIMPLY; What is that 'substance', EXACTLY?
What will very soon be UNCOVERED is that 'time', itself, is NOT a 'substance' at all, which will help in EXPLAINING WHY the 'theory' of 'general relativity' has NOT YET UNIFIED with the 'theory' of 'quantum physics', which will in turn SHOW and REVEAL how to ACTUALLY UNIFY ALL-OF-THIS.
But, OBVIOUSLY, NO UNIFICATION can take place when one "side" is being BELIEVED or ASSUMED to be true and the other NOT true.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:47 am
Also, how the word 'time', and its definitions was created, then what is sometimes referred to as time was passing and so in order 'time', itself, was created is another premises, which is again actually true.
Ok.
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:47 am
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:19 pm
This is a regress.
But what I have said is just a fact, and thus a premise, which is actually true.
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:19 pm
Regress is not acceptable.
Regress can be acceptable, but only when LOOKED FROM thee True and Right perspective.
No. We have been through this in-depth.
What has actually been dealt with here in, so called, "in-depth", is that you are just SHOWING how CLOSED 'you' ARE to, and from, your currently held BELIEFS and ASSUMPTIONS about what is actually true.
LOOK, I have NO real interest if you are, or are NOT, OPEN. You are absolutely FREE to choose absolutely ANY thing you do.
But just consider what is 'it' EXACTLY that you are SAYING, which has to be OBVIOUSLY False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect and WHY you could NOT get MANY to agree with and accept YOUR VIEWS here, let alone could NOT get EVERY one to agree with and accept YOUR VIEWS here?
I have ALREADY asked you to CLARIFY and EXPLAIN some 'things', your INABILITY SHOWS and REVEALS some of the REASONS WHY you could NOT get EVERY one "on your side", as some would say.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:47 am
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:19 pm
Therefore, the act of creation is impossible.
Creation is actually not just possible but is actuality. Otherwise, how could 'you' or ANY thing else be HERE-NOW.
Yes, we could be here without any intervention.
WHY do 'you', human beings, change the wording to DECEIVE or to DETRACT when doing so is just SO BLATANTLY OBVIOUS?
Now, once again, just ANOTHER DETRACTION, but anyway, so what 'intervention' are you now talking about and referring to?
By the way, my CLARIFYING QUESTION did NOT involve a "Yes" NOR a "No" answer. My CLARIFYING QUESTION posed to 'you' here, (which admittedly does NOT have a question mark), but anyway my CLARIFYING QUESTION posed to you is answered, properly AND correctly, by and with you EXPLANING how 'you' or ANY thing else could be here, now, if there was NO Creation, Itself.
Please STOP LOOKING AT my questions from your currently held BELIEF, ONLY.
bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:47 am
bahman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:19 pm
Therefore, there is no God.
Depending on how the word 'God' is being defined, this will effect whether there is or is NOT a 'God'.
By God I mean the creaotr.
And what EXACTLY do you think thee One and ONLY Universe, Itself, is doing right HERE, right NOW?
If thee Universe is NOT creating, and thus being the Creator, then what is It do HERE-NOW?
If by 'God', you mean 'thee Creator', and what is in fact ACTUALLY happening is 'thee Universe' is what IS Creating, then from this perspective, 'thee Universe' IS 'thee Creator', which could, would, and which does, in fact, make PERFECT SENSE with, and which fits in perfectly, with religious, AND with scientific findings and, literature.
I found 23 messages in my inbox this morning: more than I usually get from everybody combined, and more than I have ever gotten before.