Philosophy Now Forum

psycho wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:01 pm he manipulated

manipulation is what you saw in Chopin. OK. tastes could not be discussed

Janoah wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:55 am

psycho wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:01 pm he manipulated

manipulation is what you saw in Chopin. OK. tastes could not be discussed

To manipulate is to do something with your hands. I didn't give it a negative connotation. To manipulate clay is just one action.

psycho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:17 am
To manipulate is to do something with your hands.

It is clear that Chopin is a manual worker!

Janoah wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:28 am

psycho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:17 am
To manipulate is to do something with your hands.

It is clear that Chopin is a manual worker!

Do you argue that Chopin's work does not have its roots and its development in reality?

The Magic Eye

See the truth?

psycho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:32 am
Do you argue that Chopin's work does not have its roots and its development in reality?

I couldn't argue that, heaven forbid! Chopin was a conscientious a manual worker and did not manipulate anyone!

To see the truth it helps to manually enlarge the picture to full screen.

To see the truth the view requires a bit of manipulation.

If you still can't see the truth, put on your best 1000-yard stare and move your eyes around a little bit.

Janoah wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:58 am

psycho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:32 am
Do you argue that Chopin's work does not have its roots and its development in reality?

I couldn't argue that, heaven forbid! Chopin was a conscientious a manual worker and did not manipulate anyone!

I'm not sure I understand you.

My position is that at the heart of all art there is a human concept relative to reality.

I was left with the impression that you think that a counterexample would be Chopin's music (for some reason one should generalize from it a characteristic of all the arts?)

Your criticism, however, focused on the fact that I poorly describe Chopin when using the word "manipulation."

I assure you that it was not my intention to offend Chopin.

Regards.

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it see the truth.

For that reason, the truth is self-protected.

It is protected from the blind simply by the fact that it is the truth.

Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:45 am The Magic Eye

See the truth?

Would a zebra really be for lunch? Would that be true?

psycho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:38 pm My position is that at the heart of all art there is a human concept relative to reality.

Could you explain what you mean by that in a bit more detail?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:07 pm

psycho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:38 pm My position is that at the heart of all art there is a human concept relative to reality.

Could you explain what you mean by that in a bit more detail?

For me. art is distinguished from other human products because it expresses a novel idea about some aspect of reality. But this concept, being new, will only be considered art when society or the individual are in a position to understand it. The particularity of artistic expression is that it uses our aesthetic sensibility as a means of transmission. It is possible that the concept transmitted is related to aesthetics but it is also common that it is not.

In all cases, this concept corresponds to human reality. I do not consider it to have a transcendental origin or objective.

An artist can express himself unintentionally or intentionally and his creation may be considered art if others deem it valuable.

Thus, for a person to be an artist, they must first have a fresh and novel vision of reality. Original ideas are invaluable. Especially if they are relevant.

Regards.

psycho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:41 pm For me. art is distinguished from other human products because it expresses a novel idea about some aspect of reality.

When we're talking about instrumental music, say, what would you say is an example of a novel idea about some aspect of reality that a musical artwork would be expressing?

An artist can express himself unintentionally or intentionally and his creation may be considered art if others deem it valuable.

You wouldn't say there can be bad art, poorly executed art, crap art, etc.?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:50 pm

psycho wrote: ↑Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:41 pm For me. art is distinguished from other human products because it expresses a novel idea about some aspect of reality.

When we're talking about instrumental music, say, what would you say is an example of a novel idea about some aspect of reality that a musical artwork would be expressing?

An artist can express himself unintentionally or intentionally and his creation may be considered art if others deem it valuable.

You wouldn't say there can be bad art, poorly executed art, crap art, etc.?

Music is appreciated because we specialize in distinguishing patterns (of all kinds) and when a pattern is understood we are rewarded with a sense of pleasure.

However, as patterns are associated with emotions, when listening to music, we also interpret it according to our associations. The music can be martial or romantic. As if a certain pattern of sounds, without any other information, could describe battles or loves.

No. There is art or there is no art. Either the idea is relevant and novel and its expression is executed with excellence or not.