Philosophy Now Forum

Thomas Merton records being asked to review a biography of Weil (Simone Weil: A Fellowship in Love, Jacques Chabaud, 1964) and was challenged and inspired by her writing. “Her non-conformism and mysticism are essential elements in our time and without her contribution we remain not human.”

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:04 pm I think we have already exhausted the equality of outcomes v. equality of opportunities issue. Your talk of aspirations belies equal outcomes rather than equal beginnings. Most would cast aside the idea of equal outcomes.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:25 am What is the difference between being human and not human?

Orwell has one answer; Huxley, another

George might say the human is the one who resists domination

Al might say the human is one who rejects illusion or hallucination

the common trait: rejection/resistance

the not (or, less than fully) human is the herd animal, the cog, the safety craver, the guy or gal who goes along to get along

George might say this person has become accustomed to the boot on his throat

Al might say this person is well-addicted to a variety of soma

there is a name for this person: the good citizen

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:45 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:25 am What is the difference between being human and not human?

Orwell has one answer; Huxley, another

George might say the human is the one who resists domination

Al might say the human is one who rejects illusion or hallucination

the common trait: rejection/resistance

the not (or, less than fully) human is the herd animal, the cog, the safety craver, the guy or gal who goes along to get along

George might say this person has become accustomed to the boot on his throat

Al might say this person is well-addicted to a variety of soma

there is a name for this person: the good citizen

Will you agree that a caterpillar and a butterfly are one organism? A caterpillar through a mechanical process can become a butterfly. An ancient spiritual idea asserts that Man on earth is like A caterpillar or sub human but through a CONSCIOUS process can become human or analogous to the butterfly.

Obviously only a few are capable of this quality of consciousness. Of course anyone suggesting this idea in polite society should be boiled in oil but again what if there is something to it? It does explain a lot about the callings of the heart the caterpillar within us pinned to the ground cannot comprehend

where we diverge: you believe man must consciously evolve, a process thwarted by the debbil folk; I believe that evolved state is natural and normal and requires no conscious effort, a process interrupted by the debbil folk

a way to look at it...

you might say we live with the on-going consequence of The Fall, while I might say we're in the midst of an on-going, orchestrated Fall

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:04 pm Henry

where we diverge: you believe man must consciously evolve, a process thwarted by the debbil folk; I believe that evolved state is natural and normal and requires no conscious effort, a process interrupted by the debbil folk

a way to look at it...

you might say we live with the on-going consequence of The Fall, while I might say we're in the midst of an on-going, orchestrated Fall

Actually I believe that the human organism is dual natured As described by Plato, it has a lower animal part and also a higher part attracted to consciousness. These two aspects of human being are in opposition and create the human condition. The higher part is attracted to the light or its source while the lower part is attracted to attachments to the external world. We are only equal in being asleep to the human condition and powerless in front of it.

Nature doesn't assure that an acorn will become an oak. Most either just die on the ground or are eaten by animals. This raises a question for me: Do you believe there is an inner psychological path to truth Man is capable of experiencing or do we just create our own reality and one path is as good as another as relativists believe?

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:53 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:04 pm Henry

where we diverge: you believe man must consciously evolve, a process thwarted by the debbil folk; I believe that evolved state is natural and normal and requires no conscious effort, a process interrupted by the debbil folk

a way to look at it...

you might say we live with the on-going consequence of The Fall, while I might say we're in the midst of an on-going, orchestrated Fall

Actually I believe that the human organism is dual natured As described by Plato, it has a lower animal part and also a higher part attracted to consciousness. These two aspects of human being are in opposition and create the human condition. The higher part is attracted to the light or its source while the lower part is attracted to attachments to the external world. We are only equal in being asleep to the human condition and powerless in front of it.

Nature doesn't assure that an acorn will become an oak. Most either just die on the ground or are eaten by animals. This raises a question for me: Do you believe there is an inner psychological path to truth Man is capable of experiencing or do we just create our own reality and one path is as good as another as relativists believe?

There is "an inner psychological path to truth Man is capable of experiencing". This path has no end. We men are not entirely blind however, as we pursue the psychological path. We have reason for our compass and we have love to drive us on. One path is not as good as another. The better paths are the more reasonable and more loving paths.

"A test of what is real is that it is hard and rough. Joys are found in it, not pleasure. What is pleasant belongs to dreams." Simone Weil -- Gravity and Grace

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:57 pm Actually I believe that the human organism is dual natured

me too: I believe man is a composite being, an irrevocable admixture of spirit and flesh


Nature doesn't assure that an acorn will become an oak.

no, but if left alone it will, without effort

I believe man is the same


Do you believe there is an inner psychological path to truth Man is capable of experiencing or do we just create our own reality and one path is as good as another as relativists believe?

the relativists are fulla crap: man is not just a smart monkey, and, while there may be multiple paths up the mountain, there's only one peak (and all legit roads lead up)

it's man's natural bent to climb, to walk the trails and paths headin' to the peak

left alone: that's exactly what he does

always, though, there's some garbage person or people lookin' to waylay him

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:38 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:57 pm Actually I believe that the human organism is dual natured

me too: I believe man is a composite being, an irrevocable admixture of spirit and flesh


Nature doesn't assure that an acorn will become an oak.

no, but if left alone it will, without effort

I believe man is the same


Do you believe there is an inner psychological path to truth Man is capable of experiencing or do we just create our own reality and one path is as good as another as relativists believe?

the relativists are fulla crap: man is not just a smart monkey, and, while there may be multiple paths up the mountain, there's only one peak (and all legit roads lead up)

it's man's natural bent to climb, to walk the trails and paths headin' to the peak

left alone: that's exactly what he does

always, though, there's some garbage person or people lookin' to waylay him

I remember reading how Simone described the being of man as a green plant. Culture is analogous to the soil. A healthy culture nourishes the plant while a corrupt culture starves it on the inside. The leaves of the plant feed on sunlight. The process of photosynthesis. changes sunlight into usable energy. The energy of the spirit nourishes Man's higher parts. But when a corrupt culture blocks a person's ability to be nourished by the light of the spirit then it looks like a dying plant in bad soil and blocked from the sun.

Under these conditions it may be natural for human being to evolve but humanity has become incapable of it. What is possible for a plant in poor soil and blocked from the light? It raises the question what good soil or culture is and how to let the light of the spirit in. It is obvious how secular society and its glorification of the great beast successfully struggles against it