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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:53 pm
by henry quirk
Trump must immediately:

- submit his finances for audit like all other Presidents

Ain't no law sez he has to.

Nobody but you is crowin' for that these days...move on.

- properly separate his business dealings from his public duties, not just hand it all to his children to mind for him while Daddy's on a project.

He has, to the degree he obligated to.

Nobody but you is crowin' for that these days...move on.

- allow the Russian probe to run its course without interference

What interference? Bob's doin' whatever the hell it is he's doin', spendin' big (taxpayer) bucks, indictin' folks left and right, and not a soul is standin' in his way.

Nobody but you is crowin' for that these days...move on.

- cease the intimidation campaign on Stormy Daniels.

f*** her (Trump did).

Re:

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:00 am
by Greta
Do you believe that there should now be no need for would-be Presidents to present their finances for audit?

Do you believe that there should now be no need for would-be Presidents to separate themselves from their businesses while in office to prevent conflicts of interest? (Giving assets to your children to mind would not be accepted as proper separation in any company in the world).

Do you believe that Presidents can simply sack any person employed to investigate him?

Do you believe that using state assets to harass Stormy Daniels before her testifying is proper?

Don't talk about liberal hypocrisy when your own is simply outrageous. As I said before, both sides are hypocritical because it's just one of many forms of deception used in power play. We can either play the games, ignore them or expose them.

Re: Exposing Liberal Hypocrisy and Conservative Close-Mindedness

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:17 am
by Walker
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
There's no cause to dig into Trump's life.

Trump had a long public career before he was elected.

The people who elected him had a pretty good idea of who they were electing.

They had to.
He was the dark horse.

And, his popularity is increasing. That's because he's proving his mettle. :wink:

*

Obama, on the other hand, came out of nowhere.

He wasn’t elected because of his record.
He wasn’t elected because his past was known.
He wasn’t elected on his accomplishments, because he had none.
He wasn't elected because he was vetted by the press.

He was elected on personality, and undefined hopey-change.

He captured the gullible vote.

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:30 am
by henry quirk
"Do you believe that there should now be no need for would-be Presidents to present their finances for audit?"

Why should any candidate submit to such a meaningless thing?

If it's that important, lobby for a law...oh, wait, you're not American...too bad for you.

#

"Do you believe that there should now be no need for would-be Presidents to separate themselves from their businesses while in office to prevent conflicts of interest? (Giving assets to your children to mind would not be accepted as proper separation in any company in the world)."

Not acceptable to you way the hell down under, mebbe not, but since not a soul in power 'here' currently seems to give a shit...too bad for you.

And: this whole conflict of interest thing is over-rated and overblown and certainly not taken into account by a number of democrats when they hold a seat and profit from the position.

#

"Do you believe that Presidents can simply sack any person employed to investigate him?"

You mean Jim? Mebbe you wanna review the latest on Jim before you hold his booting as anything but 'for cause'.

As for 'can' Trump? Yep, Trump can. 'Should' he? Moot, cuz he hasn't.

#

"Do you believe that using state assets to harass Stormy Daniels before her testifying is proper?"

Meh, the amount that gets wasted on crap (like the current special counsel) and I'm suppsed to sweat some whore's difficulties?

Nah, I won't.

Besides:I wonder what state and fed assets Billy C. used in coverin' up his extramaritals?

#

"Don't talk about liberal hypocrisy when your own is simply outrageous"

They're ALL lars, cheats, and hypocrties, Gret, across the board, Left, Right, Middle, but you just wanna call out the ones you don't care for ('oh, FOX news is awful [and it is] but I won't say a damned thing against the crap foisted up by CNN [but you should]').

#

"expose them."

Yeah, ALL of 'em, not just the ones you despise.

Me: as I've said before, as long as Trump does what I hired him to (and he is) I don't give a good goddamn how dirty he is or how he profits 'under the table', and, I don't care how noble and pure Obama was cuz he fucked me, hobbled me, and treated me like a dog, all in service to his (not my) ideals.

and, cuz they were so damned good the first time around...

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:38 am
by henry quirk
(C)onservatives want...control of women's reproduction, sexuality, personal body chemistry, gender expression, artistic expression, plus they tend to throw a LOT more people in prison.

And 'progressives' want to abort babies (I don't care if I'm crowning, abort it!), make sex inconsequential (I share bodily fluids with people I wouldn't give fifty cents to cuz it's just sex), alter personal body chemistry (smoke that weed, Jimmy!), reduce gender to a mere fad (to hell with my XY, I'm a girl!), make art just another avenue of official propaganda (I'm sorry, you're novel doesn't meet our social justice standards), and punish all non-progressives (you won't acknowledge this six-foot albino man is a dwarf black woman? Hater!).

Folks like me, however, just wanna take over the world and leave all of you alone.

#

Folks like Lacewing (and Greta) are quick to point out Trump is a big fat liar.

It pains me to admit they're right...

http://www.politifact.com/obama-like-health-care-keep/

...Trump said I could keep my healthcare plan, I lost my healthcare plan, Trump lied.

Oh...wait...

Re:

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:53 am
by Greta
H: Why should any candidate submit to such a meaningless thing?

G: So you believe that audits to determine legality and whether claims are true of prospective leaders are meaningless. Noted.

G: Do you believe that there should now be no need for would-be Presidents to separate themselves from their businesses while in office to prevent conflicts of interest? (Giving assets to your children to mind would not be accepted as proper separation in any company in the world)."

H: Not acceptable to you way the hell down under, mebbe not, but since not a soul in power 'here' currently seems to give a shit...too bad for you.

G: Ok, you are extremely naive and have no concept of governance. Noted.



G: Do you believe that Presidents can simply sack any person employed to investigate him?

H: You mean Jim? Mebbe you wanna review the latest on Jim before you hold his booting as anything but 'for cause'.

G: Ok, it's clear that process and the systems of government are meaningless to you. No point trying to explain.



G: Do you believe that using state assets to harass Stormy Daniels before her testifying is proper?

H: Meh, the amount that gets wasted on crap (like the current special counsel) and I'm supposed to sweat some whore's difficulties?



Never mind. You are too dumb to bother wasting time with :lol:

Re: Exposing Liberal Hypocrisy and Conservative Close-Mindedness

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:03 am
by Walker
Greta, seriously as an aside, if you honestly want to understand some things about conservatism in this changing world, you could do worse than reading Heather MacDonald. It may sound like advice, and why should you listen to me, but I think she writes to your understanding. She writes on many topics and every once in awhile I read something current.

Here's one I haven't even read yet.
She is consistently logical, so it's probably pretty good.

“Emergency” at Yale: Qualified Judge Named to Court!
In a letter quivering with victimology, students and alumni denounce Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination.
Heather Mac Donald
July 12, 2018
Politics and law
Education
https://www.city-journal.org/html/yale- ... 16026.html

see, Dal? this here is what I'm talkin' about...

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:32 am
by henry quirk
"You are too dumb to bother wasting time with."

凸(-_-)凸

Re: unenforceable demands of information from Trump

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:54 am
by -1-
Greta wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:00 am Do you believe that there should now be no need for would-be Presidents to present their finances for audit? Whatever on Earth for? It's a private matter. How much anyone earns is a business for him/herself and for the Revenue service. Nobody else has a right to demand to know.

Do you believe that there should now be no need for would-be Presidents to separate themselves from their businesses while in office to prevent conflicts of interest? (Giving assets to your children to mind would not be accepted as proper separation in any company in the world). How do you think this ought to be accomplished? One has constitutional right to his or her own property. There is no way to enforce this idea.

Do you believe that Presidents can simply sack any person employed to investigate him? Depends on the hiring/ firing contract. The president can't fire just anyone. He can't fire the president of general motors, he can't fire Bill Gates, he can't fire any congresspersons. He can fire his secretary, or anyone whose employment contract allows this move.

Do you believe that using state assets to harass Stormy Daniels before her testifying is proper? by proper you mean moral, or you mean possible (as in "allowed"), or do you mean it is compatible with Miss Manners' Etiquette?

Don't talk about liberal hypocrisy when your own is simply outrageous. As I said before, both sides are hypocritical because it's just one of many forms of deception used in power play. We can either play the games, ignore them or expose them.
I don't mean to sound like a Trump supporter, but there is enough dirt on the man to besmeacher him for those, that you don't need to drum up stupid, unfounded arguments to show he is bad.

Stick with the facts, I say. There is more than enough of those to badmouth The POTUS.

"Stick with the facts, I say."

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:24 am
by henry quirk
Hey, -1-, help Greta out: post some of them facts.

Re: Exposing Liberal Hypocrisy and Conservative Close-Mindedness

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:41 am
by Greta
-1-, your own arguments are almost as poor as Henry's - showing a complete disregard for conflicts of interest and accountability and rank naivete as regards the operations of and management of organisations.

I can understand why people would give up hope that there might be some probity in public life, but not to act as apologists for blatant removal of safeguards. It appears to be a failure of education systems.

and she calls me naive

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:13 am
by henry quirk
:roll:

Re: Exposing Liberal Hypocrisy and Conservative Close-Mindedness

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:40 am
by Greta
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog ... key-traits

Five key traits of Trump disciples:
1. Authoritarian Personality Syndrome

Authoritarianism refers to the advocacy or enforcement of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom, and is commonly associated with a lack of concern for the opinions or needs of others. Authoritarian personality syndrome—a well-studied and globally-prevalent condition—is a state of mind that is characterized by belief in total and complete obedience to one’s authority. Those with the syndrome often display aggression toward outgroup members, submissiveness to authority, resistance to new experiences, and a rigid hierarchical view of society. The syndrome is often triggered by fear, making it easy for leaders who exaggerate threat or fear monger to gain their allegiance.

2. Social dominance orientation

Social dominance orientation (SDO)—which is distinct but related to authoritarian personality syndrome—refers to people who have a preference for the societal hierarchy of groups, specifically with a structure in which the high-status groups have dominance over the low-status ones. Those with SDO are typically dominant, tough-minded, and driven by self-interest.

In Trump’s speeches, he appeals to those with SDO by repeatedly making a clear distinction between groups that have a generally higher status in society (White), and those groups that are typically thought of as belonging to a lower status (immigrants and minorities).

3. Prejudice

It would be grossly unfair and inaccurate to say that every one of Trump’s supporters have prejudice against ethnic and religious minorities, but it would be equally inaccurate to say that many do not. It is a well-known fact that the Republican party, going at least as far back to Richard Nixon’s “southern strategy,” used strategies that appealed to bigotry, such as lacing speeches with “dog whistles”—code words that signaled prejudice toward minorities that were designed to be heard by racists but no one else.

While the dog whistles of the past were more subtle, Trump’s are sometimes shockingly direct. There’s no denying that he routinely appeals to bigoted supporters when he calls Muslims “dangerous” and Mexican immigrants “rapists” and “murderers,” often in a blanketed fashion.

4. Intergroup contact

Intergroup contact refers to contact with members of groups that are outside one’s own, which has been experimentally shown to reduce prejudice. As such, it’s important to note that there is growing evidence that Trump’s white supporters have experienced significantly less contact with minorities than other Americans.

5. Relative deprivation

Relative deprivation refers to the experience of being deprived of something to which one believes they are entitled. It is the discontent felt when one compares their position in life to others who they feel are equal or inferior but have unfairly had more success than them.

******* *****

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:26 am
by uwot
Walker wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:34 pmI am biased against Jones.
For his politics.
You are perfectly entitled to your political views, but to dismiss everything that is said by someone, simply because they have a different view to you is exactly the conservative close-mindedness of the title. It is such a schoolboy blunder that it even has its own name; it's ad hominem.
Walker wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:34 pmSecurity clearances are also biased against his politics.
And, I’m starting to develop a big bias against morons.
Well, even morons are unlikely to be wrong all the time.
Walker wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:34 pmLike I said in the beginning, why the hell should I listen to Van Jones define and advise?
No reason.
True, there is no reason to accept definitions or advice, but it might be useful to at least know what they are.
Walker wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:34 pmI’m not a f****** moron like you.
No indeed; you are your own special type of f****** moron.
Walker wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:34 pmFigure the video out for yourself, see if does you some good.
Like I already said, I learnt something from it.

Re: Exposing Liberal Hypocrisy and Conservative Close-Mindedness

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:33 am
by Arising_uk
Walker wrote: ...
He was elected on personality, and undefined hopey-change.

He captured the gullible vote.
Pretty much Trump to a tee then?

Lol that Americans think what they see on TV is the real character.