Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:47 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:42 pm Got it.

There is nothing to get, it's already got you.

Then there's nothing to be said. So why are you commenting?

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:03 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:47 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:42 pm Got it.

There is nothing to get, it's already got you.

Then there's nothing to be said. So why are you commenting?

Because that's what's happening.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:05 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:03 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:47 pm

There is nothing to get, it's already got you.

Then there's nothing to be said. So why are you commenting?

Because that's what's happening.

So are you a philosophical zombie, or are you simply insane with a split mind, that you can't stop commenting?

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:35 pm There’s some eternal values going on in this video.

It's a video of a worried, and yet fearless man.

The same values can be found at the watering hole, with lunch and dinner drinking side-by-side.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5937855/c ... serengeti/

I like this response walker.

There is no fear when in the immediate moment of danger...there is no room for fear in the immediate moment, fear is always of past tension...or future projection another form of tension...it's totally reactive.

There is no fear in the immediate now.

The reaction of fear was on reflection.

Proof that there is a beautiful sublime fearless presence permeating through all life. It automatically knows how to be and what to do. There is no room to stop and think what to do, it's purely an automatic response to stop thinking.

I've heard it's likened to a pure natural sedated swoon like feeling of intense calm, with a little bit of frantic worry mixed in...and that this calm descends upon us to help us with the shock...maybe it's DMT or something, all I know is it's a dream like feeling as though life is suddenly happening in slow motion...it's a very surreal experience.

I've experienced this feeling myself when I was held at gunpoint by a man wielding a fully loaded shotgun in my face while I was innocently out walking one day, he was out for money to buy drugs, he was high as a kite at the time, I found this out after the police investigation...so I know what I'm talking about. I won't go into detail of how I'm still alive, I just wanted to share that feeling of what facing death in the face feels like.

.

That’s a good description more accurate than any single word.

The eternal value you describe is the aspect of awareness that takes over and prompts action or inaction in the instant when life is stranded with no exit … which is all the time ... although the realization usually just registers in the highlights.

Just like the guy in the video.
What an expression!

Fight or flight ... or freeze.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:22 pm That’s a good description more accurate than any single word.

The eternal value you describe is the aspect of awareness that takes over and prompts action or inaction in the instant when life is stranded with no exit … which is all the time ... although the realization usually just registers in the highlights.

Just like the guy in the video.
What an expression!

Fight or flight ... or freeze.

Well I'm happy that both you and I have managed to pinpoint an eternal value

I guess we have to literally freeze frame life in order to see them ..I mean, where else is the sol going to be noticed

sol speed of light
s o u l
u sol

.

The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber, by Hemingway, shows the eternal value of power fearlessly facing power and the implications, without naming a tidy label.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:41 pm The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber, by Hemingway, shows the eternal value of power fearlessly facing power and the implications, without naming a tidy label.

How is the instinctive reaction creating the effect of power vs power an eternal value rather than just an indication of the eternal value of the conscious struggle for evolution?

Atia

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:12 am
Atia

Or an answer exists, you just didn't find it. What is this impossible contradiction? The impossible contradiction is the needs of the depth of the heart being opposed by our life in the World

Simone Weil wrote: Draft for a Statement of Human Obligation
Ah that one. That contradiction is partially resolved by realizing that existence isn't a good thing (it's not a bad thing either though). We simply had false expectations.

But that of course doesn't resolve the contradiction subjectively for most people. Indeed existence for us humans remains mostly pain, sorrow, suffering. It's more bad than good.

From what I gather, Simone Weil couldn't handle this so much that she had a mental breakdown and invented a fantasy reality. That's a common reaction from weak people.

I see this claim that she had access to the good things, and they are in another world, to be highly immoral, malignant. Good exists in THIS world, it's just scarce. We shouldn't take it away from people, that's just making things even worse.

And once we agree that in this world, there is no good, we have killed even the possibility for actually making things better.

But that isn't the contradiction being referred to. It isn't a matter of expectations but of what we are. The higher parts of our being are called to one level of reality but the lower parts in the world are called to another. They create a contradiction about what we are, It is like Plato's Chariot. The white horse of our nature is called to higher existence and eternal values while the black horse has become corrupted and called to the earth. We, as the charioteer, have lost the ability to deal with them and balance our emotional natures. How to cure a corrupted black horse? Not so easy when its corruption is worshiped.

Simone didn't have a nervous breakdown. Her dedication to truth allowed her to experience the futility of the marxist agenda and her personal experiences enabled her to became a Christian mystic. The progressive mind will declare it absurd and assume she had a nervous break down. No sane person could say and do such a thing.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:03 pm But that isn't the contradiction being referred to. It isn't a matter of expectations but of what we are. The higher parts of our being are called to one level of reality but the lower parts in the world are called to another. They create a contradiction about what we are, It is like Plato's Chariot. The white horse of our nature is called to higher existence and eternal values while the black horse has become corrupted and called to the earth. We, as the charioteer, have lost the ability to deal with them and balance our emotional natures. How to cure a corrupted black horse? Not so easy when its corruption is worshiped.

There are no higher and lower parts of our being, that's all made up. There are no two levels of reality and there is no white horse and black horse.
That's not an actual contradiction you presented, since you made up the contradicting elements in the first place.

Simone didn't have a nervous breakdown. Her dedication to truth allowed her to experience the futility of the marxist agenda and her personal experiences enabled her to became a Christian mystic. The progressive mind will declare it absurd and assume she had a nervous break down. No sane person could say and do such a thing.

Ok maybe it wasn't a nervous breakdown. There are several ways how people can arrive at such split minds where they start to believe/experience two realities. Sometimes they are born that way, sometimes religion/philosophy leads them there, sometimes it's a nervous breakdown or some mental disorder etc. etc.

Atla wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:42 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:03 pm But that isn't the contradiction being referred to. It isn't a matter of expectations but of what we are. The higher parts of our being are called to one level of reality but the lower parts in the world are called to another. They create a contradiction about what we are, It is like Plato's Chariot. The white horse of our nature is called to higher existence and eternal values while the black horse has become corrupted and called to the earth. We, as the charioteer, have lost the ability to deal with them and balance our emotional natures. How to cure a corrupted black horse? Not so easy when its corruption is worshiped.

There are no higher and lower parts of our being, that's all made up. There are no two levels of reality and there is no white horse and black horse.
That's not an actual contradiction you presented, since you made up the contradicting elements in the first place.

Simone didn't have a nervous breakdown. Her dedication to truth allowed her to experience the futility of the marxist agenda and her personal experiences enabled her to became a Christian mystic. The progressive mind will declare it absurd and assume she had a nervous break down. No sane person could say and do such a thing.

Ok maybe it wasn't a nervous breakdown. There are several ways how people can arrive at such split minds where they start to believe/experience two realities. Sometimes they are born that way, sometimes religion/philosophy leads them there, sometimes it's a nervous breakdown or some mental disorder etc. etc.

In these times of diminished attention span, many are limited to either quick blind belief or blind denial, You have chosen blind denial. There are a minority who make the conscious effort to retain an open mind through the practice of conscious attention and emotional detachment. They will be hated as Simone was for practicing both. This is to be expected. Outsiders are always considered suspicious. It is believed they will corrupt the youth of Athens so must be ridiculed. But this minority is also capable of an open mind and as much as they are hated, they bring an awareness into the world what is essential if our species is to survive technology

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:26 pm In these times of diminished attention span, many are limited to either quick blind belief or blind denial, You have chosen blind denial. There are a minority who make the conscious effort to retain an open mind through the practice of conscious attention and emotional detachment. They will be hated as Simone was for practicing both. This is to be expected. Outsiders are always considered suspicious. It is believed they will corrupt the youth of Athens so must be ridiculed. But this minority is also capable of an open mind and as much as they are hated, they bring an awareness into the world what is essential if our species is to survive technology

Those with an open mind and conscious attention can eventually realize the true unity of all things.

But some fall short spectacularly, like you have, and remain torn between two made-up worlds. That's of course just a trap, not the final solution.

Did you know that this realm of eternal values you are so fond of, is really just some rubbish from your own imagination? Have you tried taking it less seriously?

I'm out. Bleagh.

Greta wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:46 am I'm out. Bleagh.

Not me. I still read for entertainment.

So dear lurker, if you are a philosophy student with an interest in the human condition and why a free society will rot from within as described in the OP, it is natural to wonder why such intelligent people can allow it to happen. Why are they so eager to sacrifice the value of eternal truths and values necessary to sustain freedom for the sake of “enlightened expediency?” If you consider some of the responses on this thread you can get an indication. Commonsense believes the human condition to be entertaining. Greta goes bleah, Atia believes it is all imagination and so on. Why do apparently intelligent people express such denial with negativity? Perhaps Simone Weil has the answer

Religion in so far as it is a source of consolation is a hindrance to true faith; and in this sense atheism is a purification. I have to be an atheist with that part of myself which is not made for God. Among those in whom the supernatural part of themselves has not been awakened, the atheists are right and the believers wrong.
- Simone Weil, Faiths of Meditation; Contemplation of the divine
the Simone Weil Reader, edited by George A. Panichas (David McKay Co. NY 1977) p 417

Society has lost the essence of religion and secular progressives have not experienced the awakening of their supernatural part so as to open to the third dimension of thought. A person can be very smart in worldly dualism but without any awareness of the vertical third dimension of thought which enables the experience of objective meaning. Without recognition of eternal values freedom is impossible. A tyrant will be necessary to establish order. Simone Weil elborates

If the algebra of physicists gives the impression of profundity it is because it is entirely flat; the third dimension of thought is missing.
That third dimension is that of meaning — one concerned with notions like “the human soul, freedom, consciousness, the reality of the external world.”

Objective meaning is what reconciles the flat duality of our world. Without it animal Man is forced to remain in opposition with itself – our higher and lower natures. The world opposes opening to objective meaning and maintains duality with the belief it can be reconciled by the linear secular progressive mind. Of course it cannot, The secular mind representing the human condition is what sustains the dominance of the human condition while denying opening to the conscious vertical third dimension of thought.

As you can see, a meaningful essay on this great question concerning the human condition may earn you the A of all As if you have an open minded prof. If you have a prof trying to make a snowflake out of you it will be better to write something nesty about Trump, graduate, and begin the rest of your life with the hope of meeting others with an open mind.