Is it possible to convince anyone with the right words?

[surreptitious57]

The word need is in relation to some thing necessary

Attention

Is attention a need or a want. A need is something you cannot live without not something you just like to have
Though it might be hard to live without attention it is not like living without air or water. So attention is more
a psychological thing than a physical thing and so is not something that is absolutely necessary in order to live
Only physical things are necessary. Anything else is merely desirable as you will not actually die without them

[surreptitious57]

I have already admitted that I am not here in this forum to necessarily express that what I want to express. I have already said that My capacity
to express concisely and succinctly is absolutely useless. I am only here in this forum to learn how to express what I want to express concisely
and with the exact use of words. This will continue to take Me some time. There is no rush anyway

Your capacity for expressing concisely and succinctly is most definitely not usesless
Because you are the most articulate member of the forum without any doubt at all

[ken]

The word need is in relation to some thing necessary

Attention

Is attention a need or a want. A need is something you cannot live without not something you just like to have
Though it might be hard to live without attention it is not like living without air or water. So attention is more
a psychological thing than a physical thing and so is not something that is absolutely necessary in order to live

Are you just repeating what I said or are you trying to refute what I said?

I clarified what I meant immediately when I wrote that. Did you read it?

Also, up to a certain age attention is a NEED. Trying telling a screaming physical human baby that attention is not a need and it is only a want, and that attention is more of a psychological thing than a physical thing and so attention is not needed in order to live. To prove attention is a need, do not give attention to a human baby body and see how long that body keeps breathing for.

Only physical things are necessary. Anything else is merely desirable as you will not actually die without them

Are there things other than physical things? If not, then what you wrote here is totally unnecessary and redundant, and therefore was NOT needed at all.

[surreptitious57]

Are there things other than physical things

Are psychological needs physical things. That would depend upon how one defines physical I would say. The fact that they are referenced
as psychological implies that they are not physical. But they are however the product of the brain which is physical. I tend to think of the
psychological and the physical as being separate from each other for reasons of habit and convenience. Although I am not absolutely sure

[surreptitious57]

saying that time is short [ whatever that may mean and / or how that could even be possible ]

When someone says time is short what does that mean to you
Or do you have absolutely no opinion about what it may mean

[surreptitious57]

there is a much simpler and easier way to get exactly what you want and desire here and it is staring you in the face

Do you think the thing that is staring me in the face is the need to actually ask clarifying questions when one requires any answers
l already know this but do you think everyone else here does as well for less they do how can there be meaningful debate with you

[Walker]

Is attention a need or a want. A need is something you cannot live without not something you just like to have.

Need creates the want.
- If you patronize, you patronize because you need to.
- Wanting, just keeps ego in charge, for ego's benefit.
- If your finger involuntarily twitches, that’s because it needed to, and ego was left out of the loop.
- Anything you do, you do because you had to do it.
- This is true for any movement in the universe.
- The marble rolls because it must.
- The logic is irrefutable.
- Everything fits.

[FlashDangerpants]

unnecessary and redundant

Intentional irony?

[ken]

Is attention a need or a want. A need is something you cannot live without not something you just like to have.

Need creates the want.
- If you patronize, you patronize because you need to.

If you patronize, WHY do you NEED to?

- Wanting, just keeps ego in charge, for ego's benefit.

Maybe, but you stated that 'need creates the want' so want is inevitable, because obviously there is need. So, the necessary 'need' in Life leads to a wanting for the Self. AND, when that Self is heard, fully recognized, and accepted for who It is, by human beings, then that Self can go about and get what It wants, which is nothing more than what every one wants anyway. Wanting for this Self benefits every one equally anyway, so there is nothing wrong at all with this Ego always being in charge. But because this Self is not forceful at all and just waits patiently, fulfilling the want MUST come to fruition. If need creates the want, then the need will make the want to be.

- If your finger involuntarily twitches, that’s because it needed to, and ego was left out of the loop.

According to you every thing is because of need, so need must of made the small ego be left out of "the loop" here.

- Anything you do, you do because you had to do it.
- This is true for any movement in the universe.
- The marble rolls because it must.
- The logic is irrefutable.
- Everything fits.

Yes Everything does fit. Everything can not NOT fit. Everything moves perfectly, together, in order to create that what 'need' sets out to create. Always has and always will. But do you have any idea what I, Everything, and Need, am creating?

Your logic, the way it is written, can and is denied and disputed by some people because they have no idea what you are using the word 'need' in relation to. For example I have already previously demonstrated to you how, for example, if this body eats ice cream, then that is NOT a need. The body can keep breathing, et cetera, without ice cream. There of course is a want, coming from the thoughts within the body. But there is certainly NO need for ice cream to keep the heart pumping in this body. 'Need', for the body to keep producing thoughts, did NOT create that 'want' of ice cream. Prior experiences of eating ice cream created that want. 'Need' for ice cream, in relationship to human beings, is generally not seen to be true at all. So, your "logic", without what 'need' is in relationship to, can be shown to be in error.

The word 'need' needs to be used in relation to some thing else for clarity to be seen and understood, otherwise there is ambiguity.

When talking about 'need', together with human beings, the word 'need' can be thought of and/or seen in relationship with what is necessary for the human body to keep the heart pumping, keep the breathing going, and keep the thoughts producing, which is what surreptitious57 is similarly referring to when using the word 'need', and correct Me if I am wrong surreptitious57. Walker, however, to Me, is talking about how every movement of every thing is 'needed' because of some reason, which walker has yet to provide us some insight to and actually will not even provide when I ask for some clarity on this.

There are these two ways to look at and view when the word 'need' is used here, but if we are going to continue talking about 'need' we have to use it relatively to some thing, so that confusion and/or misunderstanding will not happen anymore. So, correcting Me if I am wrong with My perception surreptitious57, and, informing us of what exactly you are using the word 'need' in relation to walker, will help us all move this discussion along more successfully.

[Walker]

The answer to that question is on the record.

Need is in relation to movement.

[ken]

I have already admitted that I am not here in this forum to necessarily express that what I want to express. I have already said that My capacity
to express concisely and succinctly is absolutely useless. I am only here in this forum to learn how to express what I want to express concisely
and with the exact use of words. This will continue to take Me some time. There is no rush anyway

Your capacity for expressing concisely and succinctly is most definitely not usesless
Because you are the most articulate member of the forum without any doubt at all

If I was at all at able to express articulately, as I would like to be, then I would not have to explain that if what I am saying is not 100% clearly understood, then just ask Me clarifying questions, and I would also not have to explain that if what I am saying is not agreed with, then just challenge Me, by pointing out and showing what it is that I am saying, which is wrong, false, inaccurate, and/or incorrect, and then just explain why it is so. I am open enough to answering those questions, and hearing and looking at that, and then discussing. I want to be learn how to express more articulately, so that I do not feel that I need to keep repeating the same things.

[ken]

Are there things other than physical things

Are psychological needs physical things.

Are there any thing else besides 'psychological needs' that could be other than a physical thing?

The question was; Are there things other than physical things?

I asked that because previously you seemed to not have viewed there being anything other than physical things.

That would depend upon how one defines physical I would say.

How do you define 'physical'?

The fact that they are referenced
as psychological implies that they are not physical.

Why does some thing referenced as psychological imply that it is not physical, to you?

To Me, because psychological things, such as thoughts, emotions, et cetera, have not yet been seen with the physical eyes I just remain open to those things could be physical or they may not be.

But they are however the product of the brain which is physical.

They ARE a product of the brain? Or, do you perceive them to BE A product of the brain? If the former, then HOW do you know this for sure?

If the latter, then that is already totally understandable.

I tend to think of the
psychological and the physical as being separate from each other for reasons of habit and convenience. Although I am not absolutely sure

Okay.

[ken]

saying that time is short [ whatever that may mean and / or how that could even be possible ]

When someone says time is short what does that mean to you

To Me, from a human being perspective, saying 'time is short', means that there is not much time left to do and/or achieve some thing. It can also mean, we need to hurry up for the time frame we have left, will soon finish.

But, to Me, when I hear 'time is short' this makes me wonder how and/or why human beings still think and/or consider that 'time is actually a thing, which could be short or long'.

Or do you have absolutely no opinion about what it may mean

'Time', to Me, could take a considerable amount of, dare I say it, "time" to explain fully. But, concisely, 'time' is just a label given to the continuous flow of One actual indistinguishable event, which is perceived to be made up of completely different events.

Also, what 'time' MAY mean is of no real importance, to Me, in relation to what 'time' actually DOES mean for and to ALL things, and THAT what 'time' could be accepted as by ALL things.

[ken]

there is a much simpler and easier way to get exactly what you want and desire here and it is staring you in the face

Do you think the thing that is staring me in the face is the need to actually ask clarifying questions when one requires any answers

That statement was NOT directed at you. It was a reply to walker.

The question I wrote, however, was proof and evidence, for the hint, which is the answer or solution of what actually is the easiest and simplest way to obtain some thing one wants and desires. I also wrote that question, "Can you see it?", in reference to what was staring you in the face, to see what response I would get from those whose eyes do not work.

Also, there is NO 'need' to actually ask clarifying questions when one requires any answers, but asking clarifying questions sure helps, and is the easiest and simplest way I found.

l already know this but do you think everyone else here does as well for less they do how can there be meaningful debate with you

I have already explained My reasons for NOT debating any thing and I do NOT see debating as being meaningful also. I can NOT debate anyway because I am Open to ALL things, so I am NOT able to choose nor pick one seemingly "side" over another seemingly "side", and then fight or argue for that apparent "side". I choose to look for and find and see the truth in ALL things and the falsehoods as well.

If, what I am saying is not understood, then just ask for clarification, and, if what I am saying is wrong, et cetera, then just point it out, and then explain WHY it is wrong, et cetera. Then if they allow we can continue discussing.

To Me, if any thing can be debated or fought over, then it is not worth debating nor fighting over. It will inevitably just be a differing personal like or dislike. Also, any thing that can be argued about, is worthy of being argued about. That is, of course, if we take the word 'argue' here to mean logical reasoned, and to NOT mean the exact opposite meaning that 'argue' can also take, as in disputing, and fighting.

If any one wants to have a logically reasoned discussion until the Truth is found, and proven with sound, valid arguments, which does and will inevitably happen, then I am more than happy to proceed with that kind of discussion. But, if people just want to debate or express and try to justify that their opinion as being what is true, right, and/or correct, then I am more than happy to pull out and leave that kind of discussion.

[ken]

unnecessary and redundant

Intentional irony?

No, it was NOT actually.

But I wished I had, now.