Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote: This is not relevant. Unless you are a solipsist you ought to accept that the entire universe is in motion regardless of anyone observing it.
Even yourself when standing still, even when sleeping you are in constant motion.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
This has noting to do with solipsist. I just mentioned that you need an observer in order to experience motion and that observer could have motion since only relative motion is meaningful thing.

Assume that everything freezes. What would happen for time?

bahman wrote:
Assume that everything freezes. What would happen for time?

ken wrote: ...What part, exactly, do you disagree with?...

Terrapin Station wrote: We're having a scope issue in this tangent. So let's just scratch it for a minute. I'll ask again:

Why wouldn't we simply say that time is (relative) motion/processual change?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

bahman wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote: This is not relevant. Unless you are a solipsist you ought to accept that the entire universe is in motion regardless of anyone observing it.
Even yourself when standing still, even when sleeping you are in constant motion.

Assume that everything freezes. What would happen for time?

Assume the impossible, and then ask yourself for how long are you going to maintain this impossibility.
let me know.

Dubious wrote:

bahman wrote:
Assume that everything freezes. What would happen for time?

Time, I imagine, would freeze as well just like snapshot freezes a moment in time. There would be no before and after prior and subsequent to that instant. Of course this is only a possibility as a thought experiment. It's not possible to fathom or express with logic a frozen universe where time has evaporated existing anywhere within a multiverse of infinite universes.

bahman wrote:

ken wrote: ...What part, exactly, do you disagree with?...

The part that you try to use the similarity between time and space to push your argument. They are not similar. Space is a thing that allows us to embed forms within it, without it we cannot have any forms.

bahman wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

bahman wrote:

Assume that everything freezes. What would happen for time?

Assume the impossible, and then ask yourself for how long are you going to maintain this impossibility.
let me know.

This is simply a thought experiment. Again what happen for time if everything freezes?

I have another proposal if you do not like this thought experiment. Just find a quite place and try to rest your mind, don't let anything disturb your mind. You will see that there is no passage of time.

bahman wrote:

Dubious wrote:

bahman wrote:
Assume that everything freezes. What would happen for time?

Time, I imagine, would freeze as well just like snapshot freezes a moment in time. There would be no before and after prior and subsequent to that instant. Of course this is only a possibility as a thought experiment. It's not possible to fathom or express with logic a frozen universe where time has evaporated existing anywhere within a multiverse of infinite universes.

No, time does not freezes if everything freezes since time is objectively real in your world view.

ken wrote: Time is a thing that allows us to embed events within it, without it we cannot have any events.

ken wrote: Space is a concept that we define which is related to relative distances between objects.

Hobbes' Choice wrote: When you say "everything freezes", I suppose you mean that all motion ceases? How long for? And how?

Hobbes' Choice wrote: But this is question begging nonsense. You said EVERYTHING freezes. That has to mean time too. If time does not freeze you have to say for how long everything else freezes, but you have not.

bahman wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote: When you say "everything freezes", I suppose you mean that all motion ceases? How long for? And how?

Yes, I meant all motion ceases. Time should persist to exist if it is objectively real even if everything freezes.

bahman wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote: But this is question begging nonsense. You said EVERYTHING freezes. That has to mean time too. If time does not freeze you have to say for how long everything else freezes, but you have not.

I mean all motion freezes for a period of time. What happen for time?

bahman wrote:

Dubious wrote:

bahman wrote:
Assume that everything freezes. What would happen for time?

Time, I imagine, would freeze as well just like snapshot freezes a moment in time. There would be no before and after prior and subsequent to that instant. Of course this is only a possibility as a thought experiment. It's not possible to fathom or express with logic a frozen universe where time has evaporated existing anywhere within a multiverse of infinite universes.

No, time does not freezes if everything freezes since time is objectively real in your world view.