The Philosophy Discussion Forum

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Pluto wrote:In our European society, there is every chance that people with different beliefs can live alongside, and with, each other

You are either talking about people or art. Art does not try to kill other items claiming to be art.

i'm saying why grumble about the art you think isn't?

Pluto wrote:i'm saying why grumble about the art you think isn't?

Why not?
Don't you grumble about shit?

Yes of course, but I was asking you why you grumble at art which you think isn't. What is the reason behind your grumbling?

Metal Horse
A clothes horse (white) with the painting 'underground social' resting on the top of the clothes horse in an arbitrary way. The metal clothes horse frame acts as a support for the painting and presents it in a new way, the viewer looks down onto the painting rather than across from, on equal terms, upon a wall. The viewer is made king, the painting a mere (sight) prop, sits face-up, accommodating, in service of the viewer. The two objects, painting and clothes horse want to give power to the viewer. They understand the potentiality and scope of the viewer, and in this work, are but servants to the viewer and her perceptual betterment. Using an object in a different way than its producers envisaged can be liberating somewhat alone. The whole work renders the painting passive, so as to be more easily encountered and received by the viewer.

Pluto wrote:Yes of course, but I was asking you why you grumble at art which you think isn't. What is the reason behind your grumbling?

Because it is an insult to real craftsmanship, and engagement with the materials.
Because it is pretentious crap. It is not art.

Okay good. I found this link, it covers the idea be they different or not of Craft and Art. The comments below the blog might be of interest too.

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/ ... -craft-art

What is pretentiousness in art, when you attempt to put forward a work in terms which override or outweigh the work itself in some way, you want it to do more than the sum of its parts yet have done nothing materially to help it get there?

A work comes to mind. An American artist who taught the YBAs at Goldsmiths created a work titled 'Oak Tree' which consists of a half-filled glass of water on a small shelf which is then mounted to the gallery wall. Would you consider this a good example of pretentiousness?

http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/cra ... ree-l02262

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/201 ... e-oak-tree

This exists as a word doc but I want to make a painting of it. I bought a second-hand canvas for 2 euros which is warped. On it I want to paint the text, but don't know what colour or if there should be underpainting going on. In my sketch book I drew opposite the text a person with a tear and I thought first to paint this then the text over the top of it. The title would be Warped Canvas, and would hang on the wall all warped or could just sit in the corner on the floor like a fucked up piece of trash. Or maybe it should stay as a piece of text on A4 paper with the title Warped Canvas

Pluto wrote:This exists as a word doc but I want to make a painting of it. I bought a second-hand canvas for 2 euros which is warped. On it I want to paint the text, but don't know what colour or if there should be underpainting going on. In my sketch book I drew opposite the text a person with a tear and I thought first to paint this then the text over the top of it. The title would be Warped Canvas, and would hang on the wall all warped or could just sit in the corner on the floor like a fucked up piece of trash. Or maybe it should stay as a piece of text on A4 paper with the title Warped Canvas

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If you walked into a gallery and saw what you have just described, what impression would it make on you?

I'm not sure. I'd probably see it as attempt to address something important but failing. It doesn't go anywhere. What about you?

Pluto wrote:What about you?

I don't see any value in any of this stuff. I'm just trying to get an insight into what you see in it.

I see simplicity and harmony in it. The work is quiet while all around is noise. A space is opened up where the ideology of the present is made void.

Forgive me if i do not consider your bit of text as art; but this is what I do.

It's in Stoneware and stands about 16inches high, and the face and mask are interchangeable, can be place in the front hand or the rear, as well as on the hollowed out head. One is a copy of the "Occupy" Guy Fawkes mask, smiling, the other sad.