Philosophy Now Forum

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.


FORCE is what I meant.


If concept is more chew-able for some here then concept it is - for them.




I think, to a degree, these two words are sort-of interchangeable in this setting. Whatever.

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I would have said that "neutral force" is an oxymoron.

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For some it is.


The more I hear possible reproaches the more I am certain of the words I used;

~ Life is a Dance of THREE Inseparable, Interwoven Forces ~



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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
For some it is.

For those in possession of a dictionary.

Bill Wiltrack wrote:
The more I hear possible reproaches the more I am certain of the words I used;

I think they are called "sillygisms". Anyway, ask Lewis Carroll

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:Yes, he could. As for charts, I hope your charts are more meaningful than the MTV Top 40.

Always open to learning new things so look forward to it.

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I stand with my own words & personal philosophies but I have read of positive, negative, & neutral forces in both Gurdjieff & Ouspensky writings.



Also this, that I just found;



POSITIVE, NEGATIVE, AND NEUTRAL FORCES IN THE UNIVERSE

The negative force is the same as tama guna, and the positive is satva guna. However, there is another force, raja guna, which has no polarity and is neutral. But it is this force that creates movement in the universe (consciousness). The movement or desire (raja guna) arises in the consciousness. According to the dominating force (positive or negative), the consciousness is bent toward that polarity.

If the tama guna (negative force) is dominating, the consciousness is bent toward the crudifying (hell) tendencies. But if the positive force (satva guna) is dominating, it is bent toward happiness, joy, and freedom (heaven).

However, in the state of complete objectivity (Pure Consciousness)the consciousness becomes a witness entity. The desires (raja guna) arise and evolve into negative and positive aspects in the universe but the consciousness itself stays untouched by these activities and free from any influences in the universe. In such a state a person becomes involved in busy activities while always knowing he is not the activity and the doer but merely observes them as they proceed. He only learns from those activities without being affected by them.

Such a state has been called by many names, such as being centered, Pure Consciousness, Witness Consciousness, etc. In our Greatest Sign and HOSH Sign, it is the state in the very center of the signs, where a person is beyond any influences out of that center. It is only in this center that a consciousness knows all and perceives all with complete freedom and detachment.

Such a person might come out of this center once in awhile just to accomplish some objectives and/or learn some new lessons, but it is only in this center that the significance of all things, including his activities, can be fully perceived.

That is why meditation is helpful to clarify the situation of a person, because the process of meditation is to take one away from the influences of these forces to the center or state of objectivity of the Soul. Only in this center can a person clearly see the truth. But those who have not mastered the influences of these forces will be under their influences any time they come out of their meditation.

As they practice and realize this process of becoming objective and then involved in activities and losing their objectivity, little by little they will master themselves and will not be affected by these forces even in the middle of busy activities. They will stay centered and objective in all situations.

However, without knowledge of the Eternal Divine Path, this awesome power might be misdirected and misused thus bringing suffering to the person and others. But by understanding how this knowledge and energy should be utilized, such a person can be beneficial in the progress of the universe toward its goal.



...sounds pretty cool.



Thank you for making me feel a lot better about my own Eternal Divine Path.


Hope I was able to teach both of you something you could use upon your own spiritual & philosophical paths.





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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.





I stand with my own words & personal philosophies but I have read of positive, negative, & neutral forces in both Gurdjieff & Ouspensky writings.



Also this, that I just found;



POSITIVE, NEGATIVE, AND NEUTRAL FORCES IN THE UNIVERSE

The negative force is the same as tama guna, and the positive is satva guna. However, there is another force, raja guna, which has no polarity and is neutral. But it is this force that creates movement in the universe (consciousness). The movement or desire (raja guna) arises in the consciousness. According to the dominating force (positive or negative), the consciousness is bent toward that polarity.

If the tama guna (negative force) is dominating, the consciousness is bent toward the crudifying (hell) tendencies. But if the positive force (satva guna) is dominating, it is bent toward happiness, joy, and freedom (heaven).

However, in the state of complete objectivity (Pure Consciousness)the consciousness becomes a witness entity. The desires (raja guna) arise and evolve into negative and positive aspects in the universe but the consciousness itself stays untouched by these activities and free from any influences in the universe. In such a state a person becomes involved in busy activities while always knowing he is not the activity and the doer but merely observes them as they proceed. He only learns from those activities without being affected by them.

Such a state has been called by many names, such as being centered, Pure Consciousness, Witness Consciousness, etc. In our Greatest Sign and HOSH Sign, it is the state in the very center of the signs, where a person is beyond any influences out of that center. It is only in this center that a consciousness knows all and perceives all with complete freedom and detachment.

Such a person might come out of this center once in awhile just to accomplish some objectives and/or learn some new lessons, but it is only in this center that the significance of all things, including his activities, can be fully perceived.

That is why meditation is helpful to clarify the situation of a person, because the process of meditation is to take one away from the influences of these forces to the center or state of objectivity of the Soul. Only in this center can a person clearly see the truth. But those who have not mastered the influences of these forces will be under their influences any time they come out of their meditation.

As they practice and realize this process of becoming objective and then involved in activities and losing their objectivity, little by little they will master themselves and will not be affected by these forces even in the middle of busy activities. They will stay centered and objective in all situations.

However, without knowledge of the Eternal Divine Path, this awesome power might be misdirected and misused thus bringing suffering to the person and others. But by understanding how this knowledge and energy should be utilized, such a person can be beneficial in the progress of the universe toward its goal.



...sounds pretty cool.



Thank you for making me feel a lot better about my own Eternal Divine Path.


Hope I was able to teach both of you something you could use upon your own spiritual & philosophical paths.





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But guna is fun, it sounds like a yummy food. Raja sounds spicy. Positive, negative, sounds too boring and American. Three gunas is fun sounding. Personally, I prefer Hindu interior design (which resembles Native American art) over American archetecture any day. Sterile office structures? Yuck. Hindu art and Native American art are worthy of the respect of an advanced alien civilization. If anything, modern architecture is a step-backward.

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Agreed.


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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



Agreed.


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You speak of the universe's divine goal. What do you believe this to be...?

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...................................................





I don't know.

I did not intend to leave that impression...that I have a view of the universe's divine goal.

I, I was just quoting a site that I used to display the concept of what is referred to as, The Neutral Force.


I mentor a few fellow members here that have joined into this thread upon this page and they were asking for some guidance.





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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.





I stand with my own words & personal philosophies but I have read of positive, negative, & neutral forces in both Gurdjieff & Ouspensky writings.



Also this, that I just found;



POSITIVE, NEGATIVE, AND NEUTRAL FORCES IN THE UNIVERSE

The negative force is the same as tama guna, and the positive is satva guna. However, there is another force, raja guna, which has no polarity and is neutral. But it is this force that creates movement in the universe (consciousness). The movement or desire (raja guna) arises in the consciousness. According to the dominating force (positive or negative), the consciousness is bent toward that polarity.

If the tama guna (negative force) is dominating, the consciousness is bent toward the crudifying (hell) tendencies. But if the positive force (satva guna) is dominating, it is bent toward happiness, joy, and freedom (heaven).

However, in the state of complete objectivity (Pure Consciousness)the consciousness becomes a witness entity. The desires (raja guna) arise and evolve into negative and positive aspects in the universe but the consciousness itself stays untouched by these activities and free from any influences in the universe. In such a state a person becomes involved in busy activities while always knowing he is not the activity and the doer but merely observes them as they proceed. He only learns from those activities without being affected by them.

Such a state has been called by many names, such as being centered, Pure Consciousness, Witness Consciousness, etc. In our Greatest Sign and HOSH Sign, it is the state in the very center of the signs, where a person is beyond any influences out of that center. It is only in this center that a consciousness knows all and perceives all with complete freedom and detachment.

Such a person might come out of this center once in awhile just to accomplish some objectives and/or learn some new lessons, but it is only in this center that the significance of all things, including his activities, can be fully perceived.

That is why meditation is helpful to clarify the situation of a person, because the process of meditation is to take one away from the influences of these forces to the center or state of objectivity of the Soul. Only in this center can a person clearly see the truth. But those who have not mastered the influences of these forces will be under their influences any time they come out of their meditation.

As they practice and realize this process of becoming objective and then involved in activities and losing their objectivity, little by little they will master themselves and will not be affected by these forces even in the middle of busy activities. They will stay centered and objective in all situations.

However, without knowledge of the Eternal Divine Path, this awesome power might be misdirected and misused thus bringing suffering to the person and others. But by understanding how this knowledge and energy should be utilized, such a person can be beneficial in the progress of the universe toward its goal.



...sounds pretty cool.



Thank you for making me feel a lot better about my own Eternal Divine Path.


Hope I was able to teach both of you something you could use upon your own spiritual & philosophical paths.





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Bill, you old devil...and here I was thinking you were an existentialist looking for a home.

Eastern mysticism is cool. So are you going to join the order?

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My god is Organized Labor.

I no longer talk too much about it.



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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.



My god is Organized Labor.

I no longer talk too much about it.



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I agree.

I do talk about it if anyone is prepared to listen.

Bill Wiltrack wrote: I mentor a few fellow members here that have joined into this thread upon this page and they were asking for some guidance.[/size].

Irony is not dead in America I see.

Can anything moving be truly neutral?

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I'm not sure we could name one thing that stands still...



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