Philosophy Now Forum

The posts on this site are hard to follow. I can't tell visually where one post starts, where it ends, where a quote ends, who quoted whom, what their names are, and this whole thing is just damn confusing.

I find myself instead of pondering a philosophical question or consider a new way of looking at something, trying to decipher a conversation. It is time-consuming, takes too much energy, and it is confusing for no real gain.

-1- wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:25 am The posts on this site are hard to follow. I can't tell visually where one post starts, where it ends, where a quote ends, who quoted whom, what their names are, and this whole thing is just damn confusing.

I find myself instead of pondering a philosophical question or consider a new way of looking at something, trying to decipher a conversation. It is time-consuming, takes too much energy, and it is confusing for no real gain.

Do yourself a favour and ignore this thread, it's completely pointless, but I think you've alredy worked that out for yourself.

Nick_A wrote:

The question is how to help the young who have not become intimidated by secular intolerance and given into metaphysical repression so they are still openly attracted to eros? How do we help them to find each other so as to explore genuine self knowledge as opposed to politically correct feelgoodisms? How do we help them find adults who have had the same yearnings so understand them as opposed to spiritually blind educators who serve their unique purpose at spirit killing? Any suggestions?

Plenty of well-educated and well-trained teachers.

Decent, spacious school buildings in good repair with facilities for all activities including adventure space, and space to learn how to produce food.

School ethos that puts kind and responsible behaviour before personal satisfaction.

Parent education, because good parenting does not happen by accident.

Plenty of free medical and social care for all children so that the unfortunate ones don't suffer too much.

Apart from those needs, my guess is that Nick is most interested in the curriculum.

Harbal wrote:

Do yourself a favour and ignore this thread, it's completely pointless, but I think you've alredy worked that out for yourself.

This thread is like the one entitled "What's the Meaning of Life?" In other words, you make of this thread what you will, always with care for what the mods will tolerate.

Belinda

Plenty of well-educated and well-trained teachers.

But what are they trained to do?

Simone Weil lamented that education had become no more than "an instrument manipulated by teachers for manufacturing more teachers, who in their turn will manufacture more teachers." rather than a guide to getting out of the cave.

If this minority referred to are attracted to eros which by definition is greater than themselves how do these well trained teachers serve the need to leave the cave? They are trained to sustain cave life. That is there job as servants of modern education.That is why the young have to find each other.They need this mutual support to offset the influence of these experts and to encourage this mutual need..

Unfortunately there are teachers like you describe, Nick. However there are other teachers who have far vision and real kindness towards and liking for the children. I know a few teachers, and have teachers in my family, and I myself have trained as a teacher. So I do know from experience that many teachers are not the soulless mindless idiots that you refer to.

But what are they trained to do?

I am not up to date with teacher training. I could find out. However you are as able as I to look it up. I am sure that you will discover ethos and ethics as well as the practicalities of class management.

Teachers are expected to be morally mature themselves, and to be able to help children to become morally mature. I guess that it's moral education that you are most interested in.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:20 pm Unfortunately there are teachers like you describe, Nick. However there are other teachers who have far vision and real kindness towards and liking for the children. I know a few teachers, and have teachers in my family, and I myself have trained as a teacher. So I do know from experience that many teachers are not the soulless mindless idiots that you refer to.

But what are they trained to do?

I am not up to date with teacher training. I could find out. However you are as able as I to look it up. I am sure that you will discover ethos and ethics as well as the practicalities of class management.

Teachers are expected to be morally mature themselves, and to be able to help children to become morally mature. I guess that it's moral education that you are most interested in.

You still do not understand Belinda. You consider education to be good indoctrination. You are restricted to secular conceptions of good and bad indoctrination. The young I am referring to have begun experiencing what Plato called the reorientation of the soul. It is the beginning of the attraction to eros.

“To think about God is to the human soul what breathing is to the human body.

I say to think about God, not necessarily to believe in God–that may or may not come later.

I say: to think about God.” ~Jacob Needleman in What Is God? p. 3

Something within them has allowed them to think, to question, to inwardly breath. Spirit killers seek to kill the impulse or at best to ignore it since it gets in the way of politically correct indoctrination. This minority isn't looking for indoctrination regardless if it is considered good or bad. They need the experience of meaning which comes from opening the mind and the heart to receive from above. The young who have felt this need to know each other and also to know some adults who do not live in training manuals but have also felt the attraction to eros. They know the difference between secular indoctrination which stresses what to know and human education which teaches how to know - to become able to "understand."

Nick wrote:

You consider education to be good indoctrination.

I consider education to be the antithesis of indoctrination.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:54 pm Nick wrote:

You consider education to be good indoctrination.

I consider education to be the antithesis of indoctrination.

I agree. That would be a human education. But how many know what it is much less what is necessary to acquire it? Does secular intolerance and spirit killing further a human education?

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:10 am
Harbal wrote:

Do yourself a favour and ignore this thread, it's completely pointless, but I think you've alredy worked that out for yourself.

This thread is like the one entitled "What's the Meaning of Life?" In other words, you make of this thread what you will, always with care for what the mods will tolerate.

This thread, like all the threads Nick is involved with, is just going round in circles. It doesn't seem to make any difference how reasonable you are with him, he's simply not open to accepting that any point of view other than his own has any value or validity. It wouldn't be so bad if it was just a matter of his dogmatic and oppressive opinions and beliefs but he's also shown himself to be a pretty unpleasant character.

Jeez, Har, you're pretty much describing the whole forum, and every member.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:37 pm Jeez, Har, you're pretty much describing the whole forum, and every member.

Yes but there are one or two who seem rather more unwholesome than the rest.

You just the got the sensitivity on your bullshit meter cranked up too high...scale it back a bit...you'll see: Nick ain't no worse than any other (and he's no better either).

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:13 pm Nick ain't no worse than any other.

As much as I respect your opinion, henry, it would take quite a lot to convince me that you're right.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:13 pm You just the got the sensitivity on your bullshit meter cranked up too high...scale it back a bit...you'll see: Nick ain't no worse than any other (and he's no better either).

You are inspiring me to write a country song: "He ain't no better and he ain't no worse. He's just another pain in the ass." I can just imagine Johnny Cash singing that one.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

#

"He ain't no better and he ain't no worse. He's just another pain in the ass." I can just imagine Johnny Cash singing that one."

Me too.