What is morality?

[popeye1945]

God is the ventriloquist's dummy talking back to the ventriloquist. The dummy is the master of his fate. Now the ventriloquist believes he is the dummy, created and operated by the dummy.

[Impenitent]

reminds me of a twilight zone episode

-Imp

[popeye1945]

Reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode

-Imp

Yes, I remember that episode too!---- and it is creepy that humanity doesn't catch on to what it is doing!

[Gary Childress]

I didn't say you did. I said "What if..."

Do you have an actual answer to that problem?

What's the point of saying "what if"?

It's called a "hypothetical." It's used to show that the logical consequence of some proposed state of affairs would be.

Play along. Accept I'm not accusing you of anything. Just answer the question.

So the question is, what if I had chosen to have my mental illness. Correct? Is that what you want me to answer?

[Immanuel Can]

What's the point of saying "what if"?

It's called a "hypothetical." It's used to show that the logical consequence of some proposed state of affairs would be.

Play along. Accept I'm not accusing you of anything. Just answer the question.

So the question is, what if I had chosen to have my mental illness. Correct? Is that what you want me to answer?

Not quite. I wasn't speaking of you personally. I was floating a hypothetical about all persons generally, in response to the proposed objection that God was responsible for what happens to everybody -- even if they don't care about God or hate Him.

Romans 1 says that all men know there is a God. But not all want to know there is a God. And it says that when they refuse to acknowledge God, "their foolish hearts were darkened," and "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." Then it says that they decline in their mental stability, and become morally deranged and confused, because they have refused to anchor their understanding to the Source of all truth. And after that, they are "given over to a depraved mind," and begin to do all sorts of morally-bankrupt things.

Kind of like human beings actually do.

So when people suffer from a moral depravity they have chosen through their obstinate and rebellious rejection of God, contrary to what they know to be true, and become confused, morally bankrupt and lost...whose fault is that?

[Gary Childress]

It's called a "hypothetical." It's used to show that the logical consequence of some proposed state of affairs would be.

Play along. Accept I'm not accusing you of anything. Just answer the question.

So the question is, what if I had chosen to have my mental illness. Correct? Is that what you want me to answer?

Not quite. I wasn't speaking of you personally. I was floating a hypothetical about all persons generally, in response to the proposed objection that God was responsible for what happens to everybody -- even if they don't care about God or hate Him.

Romans 1 says that all men know there is a God. But not all want to know there is a God. And it says that when they refuse to acknowledge God, "their foolish hearts were darkened," and "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." Then it says that they decline in their mental stability, and become morally deranged and confused, because they have refused to anchor their understanding to the Source of all truth. And after that, they are "given over to a depraved mind," and begin to do all sorts of morally-bankrupt things.

Kind of like human beings actually do.

So when people suffer from a moral depravity they have chosen through their obstinate and rebellious rejection of God, contrary to what they know to be true, and become confused, morally bankrupt and lost...whose fault is that?

So is it your contention that those with mental illness are all mentally ill because of what they did as children? So for example, I didn't believe in the existence of God when I was young. Is that why I had mental illness? And if so, can a person still become mentally ill if they go to church and profess to be Christians before becoming mentally ill? Or does it, by necessity, mean that the person who became mentally ill must have not been a "true" Christian if they became mentally ill?

[Immanuel Can]

So the question is, what if I had chosen to have my mental illness. Correct? Is that what you want me to answer?

Not quite. I wasn't speaking of you personally. I was floating a hypothetical about all persons generally, in response to the proposed objection that God was responsible for what happens to everybody -- even if they don't care about God or hate Him.

Romans 1 says that all men know there is a God. But not all want to know there is a God. And it says that when they refuse to acknowledge God, "their foolish hearts were darkened," and "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." Then it says that they decline in their mental stability, and become morally deranged and confused, because they have refused to anchor their understanding to the Source of all truth. And after that, they are "given over to a depraved mind," and begin to do all sorts of morally-bankrupt things.

Kind of like human beings actually do.

So when people suffer from a moral depravity they have chosen through their obstinate and rebellious rejection of God, contrary to what they know to be true, and become confused, morally bankrupt and lost...whose fault is that?

So is it your contention that those with mental illness are all mentally ill because of what they did as children?

I haven't said anything like that. I'm amazed you come up with this wild stuff.

No, I'm dealing with the question of how ordinary men sometimes choose to become mentally and morally deranged. I didn't even suggest you did. So let's banish that, right now. Let's say you didn't choose anything that has happened to you. Still the question is, if a man, some other man, not you, chooses to reject God, and then loses his way morally and with regard to truth, whose fault is it? Is it God's? Or is it his?

[Gary Childress]

Not quite. I wasn't speaking of you personally. I was floating a hypothetical about all persons generally, in response to the proposed objection that God was responsible for what happens to everybody -- even if they don't care about God or hate Him.

Romans 1 says that all men know there is a God. But not all want to know there is a God. And it says that when they refuse to acknowledge God, "their foolish hearts were darkened," and "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." Then it says that they decline in their mental stability, and become morally deranged and confused, because they have refused to anchor their understanding to the Source of all truth. And after that, they are "given over to a depraved mind," and begin to do all sorts of morally-bankrupt things.

Kind of like human beings actually do.

So when people suffer from a moral depravity they have chosen through their obstinate and rebellious rejection of God, contrary to what they know to be true, and become confused, morally bankrupt and lost...whose fault is that?

So is it your contention that those with mental illness are all mentally ill because of what they did as children?

I haven't said anything like that. I'm amazed you come up with this wild stuff.

No, I'm dealing with the question of how ordinary men sometimes choose to become mentally and morally deranged. I didn't even suggest you did. So let's banish that, right now. Let's say you didn't choose anything that has happened to you. Still the question is, if a man, some other man, not you, chooses to reject God, and then loses his way morally and with regard to truth, whose fault is it? Is it God's? Or is it his?

OK. So you're not saying that people "choose" to be mentally ill, is that correct? You are saying that if a person becomes "deranged," meaning committing an act of evil, that they do so knowingly, is that correct? Do you think that not all people become deranged by choice? Or do you think all people who are deranged are deranged by choice?

[Gary Childress]

Not quite. I wasn't speaking of you personally. I was floating a hypothetical about all persons generally, in response to the proposed objection that God was responsible for what happens to everybody -- even if they don't care about God or hate Him.

Romans 1 says that all men know there is a God. But not all want to know there is a God. And it says that when they refuse to acknowledge God, "their foolish hearts were darkened," and "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." Then it says that they decline in their mental stability, and become morally deranged and confused, because they have refused to anchor their understanding to the Source of all truth. And after that, they are "given over to a depraved mind," and begin to do all sorts of morally-bankrupt things.

Kind of like human beings actually do.

So when people suffer from a moral depravity they have chosen through their obstinate and rebellious rejection of God, contrary to what they know to be true, and become confused, morally bankrupt and lost...whose fault is that?

So is it your contention that those with mental illness are all mentally ill because of what they did as children?

I haven't said anything like that. I'm amazed you come up with this wild stuff.

No, I'm dealing with the question of how ordinary men sometimes choose to become mentally and morally deranged. I didn't even suggest you did. So let's banish that, right now. Let's say you didn't choose anything that has happened to you. Still the question is, if a man, some other man, not you, chooses to reject God, and then loses his way morally and with regard to truth, whose fault is it? Is it God's? Or is it his?

Why would it be the man's fault if he doesn't believe God exists? Would God have any responsibility to set him straight if he didn't? Or is everyone and anyone who doesn't believe God exists, fully responsible for not believing so?

[Immanuel Can]

Do you think that not all people become deranged by choice? Or do you think all people who are deranged are deranged by choice?

I'm not saying. I am honest enough to admit I don't know why people become mentally ill. Some seem to fall into it, or be led into it through abuse, or to have it from birth. I'm not an expert in that, so I can't say. God knows.

But I can talk about one way to become mentally ill. And that's the one that Romans 1 talks about: those who choose to reject God, and subsequently experience derangement in regards to both truth and morality. And all I'm asking is, in such a case, should we blame God? Or should we blame the man who rejects God?

[Gary Childress]

Do you think that not all people become deranged by choice? Or do you think all people who are deranged are deranged by choice?

I'm not saying. I am honest enough to admit I don't know why people become mentally ill. Some seem to fall into it, or be led into it through abuse, or to have it from birth. I'm not an expert in that, so I can't say. God knows.

But I can talk about one way to become mentally ill. And that's the one that Romans 1 talks about: those who choose to reject God, and subsequently experience derangement in regards to both truth and morality. And all I'm asking is, in such a case, should we blame God? Or should we blame the man who rejects God?

So EVERYONE who rejects God becomes mentally ill or deranged. Is that the case? Or is it the case some people who reject God become mentally ill or deranged but not all people?

[Immanuel Can]

Do you think that not all people become deranged by choice? Or do you think all people who are deranged are deranged by choice?

I'm not saying. I am honest enough to admit I don't know why people become mentally ill. Some seem to fall into it, or be led into it through abuse, or to have it from birth. I'm not an expert in that, so I can't say. God knows.

But I can talk about one way to become mentally ill. And that's the one that Romans 1 talks about: those who choose to reject God, and subsequently experience derangement in regards to both truth and morality. And all I'm asking is, in such a case, should we blame God? Or should we blame the man who rejects God?

So EVERYONE who rejects God becomes mentally ill or deranged. Is that the case?

Romans 1 says that's how it is.

[Gary Childress]

I'm not saying. I am honest enough to admit I don't know why people become mentally ill. Some seem to fall into it, or be led into it through abuse, or to have it from birth. I'm not an expert in that, so I can't say. God knows.

But I can talk about one way to become mentally ill. And that's the one that Romans 1 talks about: those who choose to reject God, and subsequently experience derangement in regards to both truth and morality. And all I'm asking is, in such a case, should we blame God? Or should we blame the man who rejects God?

So EVERYONE who rejects God becomes mentally ill or deranged. Is that the case?

Romans 1 says that's how it is.

Is it possible that Romans 1 is not factually accurate?

[Immanuel Can]

So EVERYONE who rejects God becomes mentally ill or deranged. Is that the case?

Romans 1 says that's how it is.

Is it possible that Romans 1 is not factually accurate?

Is it possible God is wrong?

[Gary Childress]

Romans 1 says that's how it is.

Is it possible that Romans 1 is not factually accurate?

Is it possible God is wrong?

If Romans 1 is the word of God, then God is wrong, my friend. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.