Universal health care in a universe created by God

[Impenitent]

...Go and see. You won't miss it: take a walk in any of the homeless areas in a major city. See if they have any medical care there...

the sidewalks are littered with free needles

-Imp

[Will Bouwman]

...take a walk in any of the homeless areas in a major city. See if they have any medical care there.

Well, I think by most metrics London qualifies as a major city. The number of homeless people is known to be north of 210 000, because those are the ones that are in temporary accomodation. A shocking number, and a personal tragedy for each of them. On the plus side, they are in the system and are therefore already factored into the costs and have access to precisely the same medical care as anyone who relies on the NHS. The number of rough sleepers who are counted by outreach teams who do as you suggest and "take a walk in any of the homeless areas", is about 1500 on any given night. They too have full access to the NHS and are part of the total bill.

But how much money do our wonderful Socialist think we need to infuse to the government to pay for what they want? That's a really good question. And if you imagine we should have a figure for what I say, we surely need a figure for that, as well. What is it?

It's depends on the wonderful socialist and what they want, but if they limit their ambitions to the care for rough sleepers, the cost of which you believe would be "astronomically high", the actual answer is fuċk all. So unless you can show that London and the NHS are atypical of cities in countries that provide universal healthcare, your claims are exposed as the pearl clutching, dystopian hysterics I'm entirely confident they are.
And if you can't provide any actual data, don't fuckìng bother.

[Immanuel Can]

...take a walk in any of the homeless areas in a major city. See if they have any medical care there.

...they are in the system and are therefore already factored into the costs and have access to precisely the same medical care as anyone who relies on the NHS.

And how's that working out for them? And how's it working out for the NHS? Is it everything you ever hoped it would be? There are plenty of people who think the NHS is actually in pretty critical shape...maybe on life support. https://www.newstatesman.com/spotlight/ ... th-the-nhs, https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/23/uk/uk-nh ... t-gbr-intl. So yours would seem to be a questionable view.

But we were not talking about the UK, anyway. You asked what proof I had. I pointed out that the cities in my country are awash with the "unserved," and especially with masses of the addicted and mentally ill. And they are. You can't miss them.

But how much money do our wonderful Socialists think we need to infuse to the government to pay for what they want? That's a really good question. And if you imagine we should have a figure for what I say, we surely need a figure for that, as well. What is it?

It's depends on the wonderful socialist and what they want,

I know Socialists have dyslexia when it comes to money. They think it "just appears," or "government creates it." But they can't wish it into existence. So opinions are not the question. Rather, it depends on how many people the "universal" system has to serve, and with what services. Funding requires a number, not wishes.

That's a little too real-world for most Socialists. But it's the truth. You can't have what you can't pay for.

[Immanuel Can]

...Go and see. You won't miss it: take a walk in any of the homeless areas in a major city. See if they have any medical care there...

the sidewalks are littered with free needles

-Imp

Don't worry: most of them are buried under the garbage and excrement.

[Will Bouwman]

You asked what proof I had. I pointed out that the cities in my country are awash with the "unserved," and especially with masses of the addicted and mentally ill. And they are. You can't miss them.

All that proves is that either you can't do rudimentary research, or that, whoops-a-daisy, any research you have done unambiguously shows that you are talking out your arse. Can you at least name the cities you are referring to?

[Skepdick]

Health care is an unsolvable problem...

There really is no point debating morons who argue from perfectionism. All problems are unsolvable if you expect absolute solutions.

Perfect is the enemy of good.

[Skepdick]

I know Socialists have dyslexia when it comes to money. They think it "just appears," or "government creates it." But they can't wish it into existence. So opinions are not the question. Rather, it depends on how many people the "universal" system has to serve, and with what services. Funding requires a number, not wishes.

Here's a thought: should younger-you invest more or less of their capital towards the medical needs of older-you? Should we (maybe, I don't know...) do some actuarial science and figure out some population-averages over time?

So this way (maybe, I don't know) the statistical older-you doesn't find themselves broke and incapable of affording medical care.

No government required to manufacture the money. Just younger-you having some statistical foresight.

Then again (maybe, I don't know) future-you is a SoCiAliSt with dyslexia when it comes to money - they probably think money grows on trees.
Fuck SoCiAliSt future-you! Let them pay their own way.

[Will Bouwman]

Health care is an unsolvable problem...

There really is no point debating morons who argue from perfectionism.

Well, Mr Can, being Mr Can, will be squealing with glee, because the porridge between his ears has turned that into 'Skepdick thinks I'm perfect.' That would be glaringly obvious to all, were we to travel to some unspecified location and see it for ourselves.

[Skepdick]

There really is no point debating morons who argue from perfectionism.

Well, Mr Can, being Mr Can, will be squealing with glee, because the porridge between his ears has turned that into 'Skepdick thinks I'm perfect.' That would be glaringly obvious to all, were we to travel to some unspecified location and see it for ourselves.

Reminds me of a slogan (paraphrased) being perfect is only a virtue if you aren't a perfect moron.

[Immanuel Can]

You asked what proof I had. I pointed out that the cities in my country are awash with the "unserved," and especially with masses of the addicted and mentally ill. And they are. You can't miss them.

All that proves is that either you can't do rudimentary research...

Do you know what the most rudimentary kind of research is?

Go outside and look.

That's what I'm telling you to do.

Or...turn on your computer, and watch some news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1wA7a8KiEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEt1oV6lO6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG-YQrZQNDQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoAzzgh ... FMUzzJRh6L

[phyllo]

Toronto offers free, low-barrier medical care for homeless and precariously housed individuals through mobile street teams, drop-in clinics, and hospital-connected programs. Key services include physical and mental health care, addiction medicine, and wound care, available regardless of OHIP status.

Mobile & Street
OutreachSCOUT (Street Clinical Outreach for Unsheltered Torontonians): A mobile team of doctors, nurses, and case managers that brings healthcare directly to encampments, ravines, and the streets.

PEACH (Palliative Education and Care for the Homeless): Provides mobile palliative and end-of-life care for vulnerable individuals in shelters and on the streets.

Rotary Club Health Bus: Operates through Sherbourne Health, bringing medical care, vaccinations, and disease screening to locations with high needs.

Drop-In & Community Health
CentersStreet Health: Provides primary care, harm reduction, nursing, and identification replacement services for individuals who are unhoused.

Inner City Family Health Team: Offers comprehensive primary care, mental health support, and addiction medicine tailored specifically to the homeless population.

Sherbourne Health: Provides low-barrier primary care, psychiatric services, and a diabetes education program for people facing barriers to traditional healthcare.

The Scott Mission: Features expanded clinic and treatment rooms in Toronto to serve vulnerable residents.

Hospital Transition & System
NavigationCATCH-H (Coordinated Access To Care from Hospital for the Homeless): A program that connects individuals with complex health needs to community health supports when they are discharged from hospital emergency departments.

[Immanuel Can]

Toronto offers free, low-barrier medical care for homeless and precariously housed individuals through mobile street teams, drop-in clinics, and hospital-connected programs. Key services include physical and mental health care, addiction medicine, and wound care, available regardless of OHIP status.

You're listing Christian missions and other charitable organizations, as if the universal health care of the government was providing them.

[phyllo]

There are government funded programs and charity programs which reduce the strain on government resources.

[Will Bouwman]

You asked what proof I had. I pointed out that the cities in my country are awash with the "unserved," and especially with masses of the addicted and mentally ill. And they are. You can't miss them.

All that proves is that either you can't do rudimentary research...

Do you know what the most rudimentary kind of research is?

Go outside and look.

That's what I'm telling you to do.

Or...turn on your computer, and watch some news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1wA7a8KiEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEt1oV6lO6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG-YQrZQNDQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoAzzgh ... FMUzzJRh6L

Oh dear. If you had 'I am a useless wänker' tattooed on your forehead, no one's opinion of you would change; including yours. You said:

...healthcare has still turned into a bottomless pit...especially with things like immigration and the mental health and fentanyl crises, which aren't actually even being addressed right now, and will explode the costs if they ever are.

That is bollocks. Case closed.

[popeye1945]

decent medical care only prolongs your separation from god

-Imp

LOL! THE DUH FACTOR!