Christianity

[Martin Peter Clarke]

To what do you refer? What I say, or what the sign in the church said?

Please remember that some signs point to intentions not physical facts.

No not you! Never. I was replying in caps to GOD IS LOVE.

And I'd covered all the meanings. The Church does not reflect that at all in not pursuing social justice above all, Unlike its founder.

Even if God were Love, the Church isn't.

Actually it was a Unitarian church. Many Unitarians are Humanists. The particular church to which I refer was formerly a focus for the Labour party.

Aye, they feature prominently in Leicester's history.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

I am not as bold as I seem. Yesterday my son told me he'd remove flags from lamp posts if they should appear on his street whereupon I begged him to be careful as dangerous people around. He said that it matters to take action against the extreme right evils, that reconciliation is not an option. I admire and agree with my son but my heart fails me with fear .

Here's an interesting statistic for you, Belinda.

A new poll in the US just showed that Leftists are six times -- SIX TIMES -- more likely to advocate and celebrate violence, and even the murder of a political opponent, than are conservatives...it's 26% to 3-4%.

So your son is probably safe, and will be allowed to behave like a brainless yahoo and burn his own flag...unless he turns conservative, in which case, a quarter of his own Leftist friends would regard it as warranted to pound or lynch him.

Lucky you.

Immanuel Can claims “leftists are six times more likely to advocate and celebrate violence and even murder.” That’s not true.

The actual poll (YouGov) asked whether it’s acceptable to feel joy at a political opponent’s death. 24% of “very liberal” respondents said yes, vs 4% of conservatives.

That’s about emotions, not advocating murder. Conflating “feeling satisfaction when an enemy dies” with “celebrating violence” isn’t just misleading — it’s a willful distortion of the data.

What about the very illiberal far right? Comparing very liberal, which I am, of the true variety, and I'm in the 76%, with conservative is a false comparison.

[Belinda]

Here's an interesting statistic for you, Belinda.

A new poll in the US just showed that Leftists are six times -- SIX TIMES -- more likely to advocate and celebrate violence, and even the murder of a political opponent, than are conservatives...it's 26% to 3-4%.

So your son is probably safe, and will be allowed to behave like a brainless yahoo and burn his own flag...unless he turns conservative, in which case, a quarter of his own Leftist friends would regard it as warranted to pound or lynch him.

Lucky you.

Immanuel Can claims “leftists are six times more likely to advocate and celebrate violence and even murder.” That’s not true.

The actual poll (YouGov) asked whether it’s acceptable to feel joy at a political opponent’s death. 24% of “very liberal” respondents said yes, vs 4% of conservatives.

That’s about emotions, not advocating murder. Conflating “feeling satisfaction when an enemy dies” with “celebrating violence” isn’t just misleading — it’s a willful distortion of the data.

What about the very illiberal far right? Comparing very liberal, which I am, of the true variety, and I'm in the 76%, with conservative is a false comparison.

Conservatives with a capital C are a political party with a specified agenda, whereas conservatives with small c are people who tend to be right wing but have not necessarily have joined the Conservative party.
I understand a lot of Conservatives (capital C) have defected to Farage's party.
Some conservatives (small c) are less liberal than other conservatives.

So I agree that conflating 'conservative' with far or extreme right is not true to what is the case.
My claim referred to conservative with small c in the US, where it is true to the facts to compare and contrast " very liberal" and conservative. In the US it' s true that the very illiberal far right are a sub-category of conservative or Republican.

In the UK it's not so far the case that Far Right extremism is a sub-category of conservatism.

[Immanuel Can]

I am not as bold as I seem. Yesterday my son told me he'd remove flags from lamp posts if they should appear on his street whereupon I begged him to be careful as dangerous people around. He said that it matters to take action against the extreme right evils, that reconciliation is not an option. I admire and agree with my son but my heart fails me with fear .

Here's an interesting statistic for you, Belinda.

A new poll in the US just showed that Leftists are six times -- SIX TIMES -- more likely to advocate and celebrate violence, and even the murder of a political opponent, than are conservatives...it's 26% to 3-4%.

So your son is probably safe, and will be allowed to behave like a brainless yahoo and burn his own flag...unless he turns conservative, in which case, a quarter of his own Leftist friends would regard it as warranted to pound or lynch him.

Lucky you.

Immanuel Can claims “leftists are six times more likely to advocate and celebrate violence and even murder.”

No, a survey in the US recently found it's true. That I pointed it out to you is neither here nor there. Once again, you're desperate to go ad hominem. But you can't, because I don't care one fig if you do.

The actual poll (YouGov) asked whether it’s acceptable to feel joy at a political opponent’s death. 24% of “very liberal” respondents said yes, vs 4% of conservatives.

Ah! You looked it up, too! Good for you.

But you faked your objection. For that was only the first question in the survey. The second was whether or not the use of violence was warranted. Check the numbers on that one!

But let me grant your argument: let's say the total only comes to 24%. The numbers for conservatives are still 3-4%. Even with margins of error factored in, it's still true that the willingness to celebrate or do harm in service of an ideology is about SIX TIMES on the Left (if one can do basic multiplication, of course) that which is on the right.

Your kid's still safe.

[Alexis Jacobi]

The last time I went to church I read big font, gold leaf, up on the wall GOD IS LOVE.

We learn fear and love through others’ experience in stories — Scripture, parables, history — growing sympathy and guiding moral action.

If God is anything, God is best understood as Logos — before the sentimentalism enters in and mucks things up. Logos would ask for a careful list of what “love” is for a nation, and how political love should manifest.

Let us suppose a definition of love ”God” that demands — let’s suppose for fun — a ruthless and severe political philosophy? What if “God above” supported the nationalist ideal behind the “spirit” in the St George flag?

Once one has junked the sentimentalism in the word “love”, then love of one’s people, one’s nation could well be the requirement.

But such love would not be seen as sentimental love, but rather as harshness or intolerance, right?

[Alexis Jacobi]

The Federalist

“The Left has never been held accountable for political violence — and that must change.”

Sounds about right.

[promethean75]

Nope. "Logos" is a word philosophers made up in the comfort of their own heads.

[Belinda]

Here's an interesting statistic for you, Belinda.

A new poll in the US just showed that Leftists are six times -- SIX TIMES -- more likely to advocate and celebrate violence, and even the murder of a political opponent, than are conservatives...it's 26% to 3-4%.

So your son is probably safe, and will be allowed to behave like a brainless yahoo and burn his own flag...unless he turns conservative, in which case, a quarter of his own Leftist friends would regard it as warranted to pound or lynch him.

Lucky you.

Immanuel Can claims “leftists are six times more likely to advocate and celebrate violence and even murder.”

No, a survey in the US recently found it's true. That I pointed it out to you is neither here nor there. Once again, you're desperate to go ad hominem. But you can't, because I don't care one fig if you do.

The actual poll (YouGov) asked whether it’s acceptable to feel joy at a political opponent’s death. 24% of “very liberal” respondents said yes, vs 4% of conservatives.

Ah! You looked it up, too! Good for you.

But you faked your objection. For that was only the first question in the survey. The second was whether or not the use of violence was warranted. Check the numbers on that one!

But let me grant your argument: let's say the total only comes to 24%. The numbers for conservatives are still 3-4%. Even with margins of error factored in, it's still true that the willingness to celebrate or do harm in service of an ideology is about SIX TIMES on the Left (if one can do basic multiplication, of course) that which is on the right.

Your kid's still safe.

You’re right that the survey asked two questions. The first was about whether people feel it’s acceptable to take joy in a political opponent’s death, where the numbers cited stand. But the second question is just as important — it asked whether political violence is ever warranted. On that, a strong majority across the spectrum rejected it. Even among the “very liberal,” most said no. So if anything, the results show that while some people might express emotional satisfaction in extreme cases, they still overwhelmingly oppose violence as a political tool.
The poll was taken after Kirk's death , and without a poll before Kirk's death we don't have stats about the trend in the matters.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Nope. "Logos" is a word philosophers made up in the comfort of their own heads.

As is everything that we can consider human and ‘the human’.

If you subtract logos (and everything connoted by that term) you end up with nothing. Just physical processes and biological events.

And instead of “made up” I would say discovered but also embellished or “worked”.

The part that interests me is how it is that “you” have arrived at the determining conclusion that what you do with your brain, more especially when you have removed “mind” from your equations, is all that there is and could be in the universe, the cosmos, the manifest reality, pertaining to intelligence, awareness, consciousness, understanding and certainly meaning.

Did you construct this peculiar castle or, more likely it would seem, was it constructed for you?

[Immanuel Can]

Immanuel Can claims “leftists are six times more likely to advocate and celebrate violence and even murder.”

No, a survey in the US recently found it's true. That I pointed it out to you is neither here nor there. Once again, you're desperate to go ad hominem. But you can't, because I don't care one fig if you do.

The actual poll (YouGov) asked whether it’s acceptable to feel joy at a political opponent’s death. 24% of “very liberal” respondents said yes, vs 4% of conservatives.

Ah! You looked it up, too! Good for you.

But you faked your objection. For that was only the first question in the survey. The second was whether or not the use of violence was warranted. Check the numbers on that one!

But let me grant your argument: let's say the total only comes to 24%. The numbers for conservatives are still 3-4%. Even with margins of error factored in, it's still true that the willingness to celebrate or do harm in service of an ideology is about SIX TIMES on the Left (if one can do basic multiplication, of course) that which is on the right.

Your kid's still safe.

You’re right that the survey asked two questions.

Yes, as I said. Nice of you to finally admit it.

...a strong majority across the spectrum rejected it.

So...if one in four people will advocate violence against you, your response is, "Well, three in four won't?"

How would you like to walk down the street, or voice an opinion, knowing that there's a 1 in 4 chance that somebody will desire to injure or murder you for it? Will it console you that there are three chances in four you won't be murdered, or would you still be concerned about the fact that if you have four (4) Lefty neighbours, you might well have at least one ideological psychopath in the bunch?

ONE IN FOUR. By any reckoning, that's a staggering statistic. You might get similar levels of psychopathy if you were living in a jail...outside of that, you'd hope not.

Moral of the story: the problem's nowhere near balanced. The Left is much more ideologically prone to violence than the right. So if you worry about anybody, worry about the Lefties.

[Alexis Jacobi]

If you wish to understand what the Centrist Right of America — millions and millions of people in fact — have experienced and felt from witnessing the mockery and gloating over Kirk’s assassination, listen to Winston Marshall.

[Age]

No, a survey in the US recently found it's true. That I pointed it out to you is neither here nor there. Once again, you're desperate to go ad hominem. But you can't, because I don't care one fig if you do.

Ah! You looked it up, too! Good for you.

But you faked your objection. For that was only the first question in the survey. The second was whether or not the use of violence was warranted. Check the numbers on that one!

But let me grant your argument: let's say the total only comes to 24%. The numbers for conservatives are still 3-4%. Even with margins of error factored in, it's still true that the willingness to celebrate or do harm in service of an ideology is about SIX TIMES on the Left (if one can do basic multiplication, of course) that which is on the right.

Your kid's still safe.

You’re right that the survey asked two questions.

Yes, as I said. Nice of you to finally admit it.

...a strong majority across the spectrum rejected it.

So...if one in four people will advocate violence against you, your response is, "Well, three in four won't?"

How would you like to walk down the street, or voice an opinion, knowing that there's a 1 in 4 chance that somebody will desire to injure or murder you for it? Will it console you that there are three chances in four you won't be murdered, or would you still be concerned about the fact that if you have four (4) Lefty neighbours, you might well have at least one ideological psychopath in the bunch?

ONE IN FOUR. By any reckoning, that's a staggering statistic. You might get similar levels of psychopathy if you were living in a jail...outside of that, you'd hope not.

Moral of the story: the problem's nowhere near balanced. The Left is much more ideologically prone to violence than the right. So if you worry about anybody, worry about the Lefties.

LOL

So, once again, well to 'this one' anyway, it is always 'those' on the "other side" who are 'prone' to doing what is Wrong, in Life.

[Age]

If you wish to understand what the Centrist Right of America — millions and millions of people in fact — have experienced and felt from witnessing the mockery and gloating over Kirk’s assassination, listen to Winston Marshall.

1. Why do you say, "centrist right", here?

2. Have you considered and understood what others of millions and millions of human beings have experienced and felt from witnessing the mockery and gloating over other's assassinations, as well?

Would any one like to have a Truly open and honest peaceful discussion while going 'in to detail' about the 'actual words' used in 'that video'?

If no, then why not?

What will become clear, here, is that those on "one-side" will only want to have what they call 'a discussion' with another who is on the "other side", (or with one on the "same side"). They do not want to have 'a discussion' with 'us' who are not on "any side", and who know that there are absolutely 'no sides', in Life. Other than, of course, only 'that', which is actually True, Right, Accurate, and/or Correct, in Life, and not what is actually True, Right, Accurate, and/nor Correct, in Life.

Therefore, there is actually nothing at all to 'disagree with', in Life. Unless, of course, you are one who assumes or believes that some thing on the 'Wrong side' is actually what is 'Right', in Life.

[Belinda]

The Guardian view on Christianity and the UK far right: churches must stand up to the false prophets of division
Editorial

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... f-division

[Belinda]

If you wish to understand what the Centrist Right of America — millions and millions of people in fact — have experienced and felt from witnessing the mockery and gloating over Kirk’s assassination, listen to Winston Marshall.

David and Goliath . Once again the powerful forces of division and war oppose a small David with his sling.