Christianity

[Immanuel Can]

Prophetic (Hebrew) imperatives read like tracts from Teología de Liberación tracts! Amos, Hosea, etc.

Ummm…no, actually.

Do you ever actually read the Bible? I though you might, but almost everything you say about it really implies you didn’t.

[Dubious]

### 1. Enduring Critique of Capitalism

“Capitalism” is a fake. .

[/quote]

...Jesus qualifies even more for there’s no such thing!


From Chatgpt, if you didn't know what Gemini was...

Yes, Karl Marx remains important today — not just in political theory, but in discussions about capitalism, inequality, labor, and power structures. While some aspects of his 19th-century predictions didn’t materialize as he expected, many of his core ideas continue to resonate, especially in light of growing economic disparity and global crises.

### Here's why Marx is still relevant today:

#### 1. **Critique of Capitalism**

Marx's analysis of capitalism as inherently exploitative and crisis-prone is still widely referenced. His ideas help explain:

* Wealth concentration among elites (e.g., billionaires vs. the working class)
* Wage stagnation despite productivity gains
* Gig economy and precarious labor conditions

#### 2. **Class Struggle**

The idea that social classes are in conflict—owners vs. workers—remains a lens through which many understand:

* Labor strikes
* Debates over minimum wage and union power
* The politics of inequality

#### 3. **Globalization and Imperialism**

Marx’s work, especially expanded by thinkers like Lenin, analyzed how capitalism expands through colonialism and global markets — a topic still central in critiques of modern global trade and multinational corporations.

#### 4. **Philosophy and Theory**

Marx influenced:

* Sociology and critical theory (Frankfurt School, cultural studies)
* Postcolonial theory
* Feminist and ecological critiques of capitalism

#### 5. **Real-World Movements**

Though 20th-century attempts at Marxist states often led to authoritarianism, Marxist ideas still inspire movements today:

* Democratic socialism (e.g., Bernie Sanders, some Green parties)
* Anti-capitalist activism
* Global South critiques of neoliberalism

### But there are caveats:

* Marx underestimated the adaptability of capitalism (e.g., welfare states, regulations)
* He didn’t predict the rise of a large middle class or consumer society
* His revolutionary prescriptions are controversial or outdated in liberal democracies

---

**In summary:** Marx may not have had all the answers, but his questions about inequality, labor, and power are still very much alive. Whether one agrees with him or not, engaging with his ideas is still essential for understanding the modern world.

There seems to be a considerable amount of agreement regarding his importance.

[Dubious]

So, for example:

Jesus: “Love your enemies, and do good to those who spitefully use you.”

Marx: “...Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.…They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."

Do you mean the social conditions which existed in the 19th century like sending children to work in mines and factories for 14 to 16 hrs/day which your Christian churchgoers had no problem with?

[Immanuel Can]

From Chatgpt, if you didn't know what Gemini was...

It’s no better. Using AI is outsourcing one’s brain, if all one does is believe every word it issues. It’s been well documented already that AI, at least as it currently stands, is wildly ideologically coded, and often gives answers that are pretty ridiculous. This one seems more like a sort of very sketchy entry made up of bullet points, and devoid of context, proper grammar, and rational justifications. It’s even more superficial than the Gemini one.

[Immanuel Can]

So, for example:

Jesus: “Love your enemies, and do good to those who spitefully use you.”

Marx: “...Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.…They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."

Do you mean the social conditions which existed in the 19th century like sending children to work in mines for 14 to 16 hrs/day which your Christian churchgoers had no problem with?

Actually, Christians were not only on the forefront of the labour-improvement movement, it was during this period that they essentially invented universal public schooling, which was originally provided free, to working-class street urchins, who couldn’t pay at dime, at church expense. The first such were called “Sunday Schools,” and they taught both literacy and evangelism. But they were so wildly successful in improving the situation of poor families, that soon the approach was secularized and universalized.

As for the many women on the street, Christians were key volunteer functionaries in serving them and getting them off the street — during a time when no welfare measures, no government relief, and no public sympathy were even available, in most cases.

This, in addition to campaigning tirelessly for the end of child labour, just as they had campaigned successfully for the abolition of the slave trade across the British Empire.

You’re welcome.

[Dubious]

From Chatgpt, if you didn't know what Gemini was...

It’s no better. Using AI is outsourcing one’s brain, if all one does is believe every word it issues. It’s been well documented already that AI, at least as it currently stands, is wildly ideologically coded, and often gives answers that are pretty ridiculous. This one seems more like a sort of very sketchy entry made up of bullet points, and devoid of context, proper grammar, and rational justifications. It’s even more superficial than the Gemini one.

Whatever you say! One has to give the insanely prejudiced their due. You obviously have no other way to reply! The difference is that these extracts amount to critiques which are both common and historical regarding Marx or anyone for that matter. AI, in spite of the fact it too can make mistakes, is infinitely more reliable than the warped excesses you proclaim with every post.

AI doesn't have an ax to grind like idiot humans who insist on the validity of their unquestionable insane, distorted arguments.

[promethean75]

"There’s no central figure of this “Capitalism,” like Marx or Engels"

Lol, if the king had given the mechants any trouble, Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations would have been weaponized just like the communist manifesto was.

The reason why the manifesto was a big deal was because three-quarters of european people were living in squalor and working their asses off when it came out.

Capitalism was as revolutionary as an idea as marxism, but merchants didn't suffer like the proletariat, so nobody was waving Smith's banner around.

[Dubious]

So, for example:

Jesus: “Love your enemies, and do good to those who spitefully use you.”

Marx: “...Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.…They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."

Do you mean the social conditions which existed in the 19th century like sending children to work in mines for 14 to 16 hrs/day which your Christian churchgoers had no problem with?

Actually, Christians were not only on the forefront of the labour-improvement movement...

True, there were some non-profit Christians around who did try to do good...but not only Christians. Marx, as you know, was a Jew!

[Belinda]

So, for example:

Jesus: “Love your enemies, and do good to those who spitefully use you.”

Marx: “...Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.…They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."

Do you mean the social conditions which existed in the 19th century like sending children to work in mines for 14 to 16 hrs/day which your Christian churchgoers had no problem with?

Actually, Christians were not only on the forefront of the labour-improvement movement, it was during this period that they essentially invented universal public schooling, which was originally provided free, to working-class street urchins, who couldn’t pay at dime, at church expense. The first such were called “Sunday Schools,” and they taught both literacy and evangelism. But they were so wildly successful in improving the situation of poor families, that soon the approach was secularized and universalized.

As for the many women on the street, Christians were key volunteer functionaries in serving them and getting them off the street — during a time when no welfare measures, no government relief, and no public sympathy were even available, in most cases.

This, in addition to campaigning tirelessly for the end of child labour, just as they had campaigned successfully for the abolition of the slave trade across the British Empire.

You’re welcome.

But charity workers had neither the manpower nor the cash to do all that was needed in rapidly urbanising and industrialising societies

[MikeNovack]

Marx and revolution --- keep in mind time frame. Marx unclear on whether revolution would be needed in a liberal democracy because for him theoretical. Liberal democracies thin on the ground in those days. Stick to the UK. Marx is writing shortly after the Chartists. Universal suffrage for MEN not till 1918. Most places had property qualifications to vote. And women? They didn't get the vote in Switzerland till 1971.

Democratic Socialism goes back to the late 19th Century, essentially tackling the question, IF a liberal democracy, was one obligated to work for socialism/communism within the political process. I wrote socialism slash communism because at that time the meanings were still fluid and the terms often used interchangeably. That debate less theoretical here in the US as by mid 19th Century property qualifications had gone away in pretty much all states.

While Marxists tend to think otherwise, there are strains of Leftism long predating Marx. For those who want to discuss in terms of religion, how about the True Levellers (the "Diggers" were 17th Century)

[Dubious]

It’s no better. Using AI is outsourcing one’s brain...

The merits of outsourcing depend on what you're outsourcing from to what you're outsourcing to. In your case, there's no contest!

Here's another such outsourcing of one's brain from Copilot...

# Is Marx Still Important Today?

Marx’s critique of capitalism and his vision of a classless society continue to shape how we analyze economic inequality, political power, and social transformation in the 21st century.

---

## Economic Analysis and Class Critique

Marx’s labor theory of value and his concept of surplus value expose how workers produce more value than they receive in wages, fueling persistent economic inequality. His idea that class struggle drives historical change helps us understand contemporary debates over wealth concentration, bank bailouts, and labor rights.

---

## Political Influence and Social Movements

Many modern political campaigns draw directly from Marxist foundations. Universal healthcare, free education, and other welfare policies echo Marx’s call to reduce inequality. Current movements—from Black Lives Matter to climate justice campaigns—use class analysis to challenge systemic exploitation and mobilize for structural change.

---

## Social and Cultural Impact

Marx’s notion of alienation—workers feeling detached from their labor—and his critique of ideological control remain central to cultural studies. Scholars and activists explore how media, education systems, and corporate culture perpetuate dominant values, while independent art and critical pedagogy aim to liberate minds and foster class consciousness.

---

## Environmental and Technological Relevance

The concept of a “metabolic rift” describes capitalism’s disruptiveness toward nature, underpinning today’s climate crisis analysis. Automation and digital platforms are examined through Marxist lenses to assess how technological advances can both empower workers and deepen exploitation by substituting human labor with machines.

---

## Academic and Theoretical Legacy

In sociology, political science, and economics, Marxism remains a foundational framework. Its key tools—historical materialism, class analysis, and critique of political economy—continue to inform research on social justice, global trade, and the dynamics of power in both capitalist and post-capitalist societies.

---

## Criticisms and Debates

- From the right: Marxism is seen as threatening individual freedom and prone to authoritarian outcomes when implemented in state planning.
- From the left: Critics argue Marx overlooked issues of race, gender, and identity, and that rigid class-based analysis sometimes fails to address today’s complex social dynamics.

---

## Key Marxist Concepts in Today’s Context

| Concept | Modern Example |
|--------------------|-----------------------------------------------|
| Class Struggle | Global protests against income inequality |
| Alienation | Gig economy workers’ burnout and turnover |
| Metabolic Rift | Policy debates on carbon emissions and climate |

*Table citations: class struggle [7], alienation [9], metabolic rift [10]*

---

Marx’s relevance endures because his ideas provide a powerful toolkit for diagnosing and challenging the interconnected crises of our age—economic injustice, environmental breakdown, and social alienation. Whether you’re a policymaker, scholar, or activist, engaging with Marxist analysis can deepen our understanding of why the world remains structured around power and profit, and how we might change it.

[Immanuel Can]

From Chatgpt, if you didn't know what Gemini was...

It’s no better. Using AI is outsourcing one’s brain, if all one does is believe every word it issues. It’s been well documented already that AI, at least as it currently stands, is wildly ideologically coded, and often gives answers that are pretty ridiculous. This one seems more like a sort of very sketchy entry made up of bullet points, and devoid of context, proper grammar, and rational justifications. It’s even more superficial than the Gemini one.

...these extracts amount to critiques…

No, at most they’re just ideologically-slanted summaries. They actually fail to “critique” anything at all…but I don’t think they really were fashioned as a critique. You may have used too general a command, I suspect.

[Immanuel Can]

Do you mean the social conditions which existed in the 19th century like sending children to work in mines for 14 to 16 hrs/day which your Christian churchgoers had no problem with?

Actually, Christians were not only on the forefront of the labour-improvement movement...

True, there were some non-profit Christians around who did try to do good...but not only Christians. Marx, as you know, was a Jew!

You don’t know Marx, if you think he was around “doing good.” He actually was one of the most bitter, spiteful characters in history, and an occultist, to boot. His own father called him “my dear devil,” and seriously questioned whether his son was demon-possessed. His favourite quotation came from Faust, and reads, “Everything that exists deserves to perish.” But if you even read one biography of him, you’d already know this, I suspect.

If you’re in doubt, go and read Marx’s own poetry. You’ll get the flavour very, very quickly. Did you know he wrote poems? You can find them online.

[Immanuel Can]

Do you mean the social conditions which existed in the 19th century like sending children to work in mines for 14 to 16 hrs/day which your Christian churchgoers had no problem with?

Actually, Christians were not only on the forefront of the labour-improvement movement, it was during this period that they essentially invented universal public schooling, which was originally provided free, to working-class street urchins, who couldn’t pay at dime, at church expense. The first such were called “Sunday Schools,” and they taught both literacy and evangelism. But they were so wildly successful in improving the situation of poor families, that soon the approach was secularized and universalized.

As for the many women on the street, Christians were key volunteer functionaries in serving them and getting them off the street — during a time when no welfare measures, no government relief, and no public sympathy were even available, in most cases.

This, in addition to campaigning tirelessly for the end of child labour, just as they had campaigned successfully for the abolition of the slave trade across the British Empire.

You’re welcome.

But charity workers had neither the manpower nor the cash to do all that was needed in rapidly urbanising and industrialising societies

They did an amazing job, actually. For not having much in the way of resources, to make wholesale social changes like that, and to do it without taxing anybody or stealing from anybody, and sheerly on the good-heartedness of volunteerism — well, it has to be regarded as most remarkable, to say the very least.

But you’d need to read that history in order to have some grasp of how spectacular their contributions actually were…and nowadays, people avoid all literature that casts Christians in any favourable light.

[Immanuel Can]

Here's another such outsourcing of one's brain from Copilot…

Same problems.

Be careful not to be too trusting and naive about technology, especially when it yields to you the sorts of results you’d most like to be told.