Haven’t those who reject morality just because of its religious roots ended up constructing another belief system

[henry quirk]

Islamism is not a problem in Europe

That's not what I hear, but: if you say so.

I've been proud to wear the Keffiyeh as an act of atonement.

Atonement for what?

still not salt I notice!

Only cuz birdshot shells are readily available and rock salt shells are not.

I'm finding it hard to regard you as a class enemy.

Oh, I'm just an enemy. Class ain't got nuthin' to do with it.

Got home late and my wife berated me. When I told her what had happened she berated me again.

I imagine that was the worst of it.

[henry quirk]

You mistake culture for God.

[attofishpi]

You mistake culture for God.

Belinda thinks GOD was made up within cultures around the world rather than actually existing.

[henry quirk]

Give in to it man!

Can't give in to sumthin' that doesn't come natural.

You are a transcendent being

No I'm not. I'm a person. Body and soul, co-equal.

Metaphysically disposed? WTF is that?!

The moral sense, which is sourced in the spirit, not the substance.

'Beyond' nature

Exactly.

Show me any of your metaphors.

They're not metaphors. I can't show you what you won't see.

Would that convince you?

In my scenario you have no shiv.

Where do you get your God?

Answered that.

Reason comes last, but you put it falsely first.

Don't be autistic, Martin. I could have written Robert E Howard, intuition, and reason instead. The elements count, not the sequence I put 'em in.

So what was there before this one finite reality of yours?

God, I suppose.

And what follows it? Null?

Hell if I know.

Ah! Heaven.

I don't believe in that.

So what was before for His eternity? What was He doing? Omming timelessly? Why did He impossibly change? And become spiteful with it.

Hell if I know. Hell if I know. Hell if I know. Did He change? Is He spiteful?

[henry quirk]

you need to get political

I'm exactly as political as I like, in exactly the way I like.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Islamism is not a problem in Europe

(i) That's not what I hear, but: if you say so.

I've been proud to wear the Keffiyeh as an act of atonement.

(ii) Atonement for what?

still not salt I notice!

(iii) Only cuz birdshot shells are readily available and rock salt shells are not.

I'm finding it hard to regard you as a class enemy.

(iv) Oh, I'm just an enemy. Class ain't got nuthin' to do with it.

Got home late and my wife berated me. When I told her what had happened she berated me again.

(v) I imagine that was the worst of it.

Glad you decompressed.

(i) What am I missing? What am I not hearing? In a city of over 100,000 Muslims?

(ii) Being an apologist for the Nakba. On fundamentalist, tribal grounds.

(iii) : ) you see, you're far more Jimmy Stewart than John Wayne. And I love John Wayne. Despite everything.

(iv) Aye, we're both slightly privileged little people.

(v) You're not wrong. I felt more dread at that. Actual, deep, existential dread.

[Martin Peter Clarke]

Give in to it man!

(i) Can't give in to sumthin' that doesn't come natural.

You are a transcendent being

(ii) No I'm not. I'm a person. Body and soul, co-equal.

Metaphysically disposed? WTF is that?!

(iii) The moral sense, which is sourced in the spirit, not the substance.

'Beyond' nature

(iv) Exactly.

Show me any of your metaphors.

(v) They're not metaphors. I can't show you what you won't see.

Would that convince you?

(vi) In my scenario you have no shiv.

Where do you get your God?

(vii) Answered that.

Reason comes last, but you put it falsely first.

(viii) Don't be autistic, Martin. I could have written Robert E Howard, intuition, and reason instead. The elements count, not the sequence I put 'em in.

So what was there before this one finite reality of yours?

(ix) God, I suppose.

And what follows it? Null?

(x) Hell if I know.

Ah! Heaven.

(xi) I don't believe in that.

So what was before for His eternity? What was He doing? Omming timelessly? Why did He impossibly change? And become spiteful with it.

(xii) Hell if I know. Hell if I know. Hell if I know. Did He change? Is He spiteful?

(i) I know the problem. The instincts are strong.

(ii) 'Soul' is an emergent body state in nature, more complex. Equal in what regard?

(iii) All the metaphysical I know, all the moral, all the 'spirit', is in (ii). They are certainly equally emergent...

(iv) ... in nature. All of this is elegantly, parsimoniously explained scientifically and rationally by nature. Nothing in the imaginary 'beyond'.

(v) There is no need to go beyond. There is yearning to. It's only natural.

(vi) Ah, you win in yours, I in mine. How metaphorical.

(vii) Aye. Following, building on the yearning.

(viii) It's my beholder's share. On the spectrum tho' I be.

(ix) Did this God do anything in His timeless eternity?

(x) What happens to us?

(xi) Above us only sky? Or is it a continuum of physical-metaphysical existence?

[Belinda]

You mistake culture for God.

You think your ideas in your mind come directly from God. They don't , they come from the culture which you learned.

You say you are a deist. A deist is a God believer who believes God made all there is, and then left all there is to get on with it according to His Plan,
A deist does not believe that God comes down specifically to put ideas in Henry's mind, Belinda's mind, or Trump's mind.

Martin Peter Clark wrote:

what was before for His eternity? What was He doing? Omming timelessly? Why did He impossibly change? And become spiteful with it.

I am a deist until Martin's question makes me think again. Having thought again I now believe that God is cultural. But I do love the idea of a Being "omming timelessly" , so I waver.
I never had to wriggle free from any religious sect or cult,and perhaps as a result I can easily believe that God has a history that includes both the old Jahweh and Isaiah's version later on.

The best people I knew during my formative years were all Christians so I am biased. I can never nor want to wriggle free from the influence of that loving and liberal church .

[henry quirk]

You think your ideas in your mind come directly from God.

I never said that. I don't believe that.

[henry quirk]

All of this is elegantly, parsimoniously explained scientifically and rationally by nature.

Uh, no.

you win in yours

Not necessarily.

Did this God do anything in His timeless eternity?

Hell if I know.

What happens to us?

Hell if I know.

What am I missing?

Loads, I'm sure.

[henry quirk]

I ask again...

I am an awful slaver. I've got you and intend to sell you to a buncha blood-drinkin' republicans. I'm also a philo-minded guy and like to give my properties a chance to win their freedom. Here's what I say to you...

Friend, this here is your chance to walk free: convince me it's wrong I should treat you like a commodity.

What's your argument?

[Belinda]

You think your ideas in your mind come directly from God.

I never said that. I don't believe that.

I am glad to hear it. Where do your ideas come from if not directly from God?

[Belinda]

I ask again...

I am an awful slaver. I've got you and intend to sell you to a buncha blood-drinkin' republicans. I'm also a philo-minded guy and like to give my properties a chance to win their freedom. Here's what I say to you...

Friend, this here is your chance to walk free: convince me it's wrong I should treat you like a commodity.

What's your argument?

That's what it's all about Henry.

[Belinda]

You mistake culture for God.

Belinda thinks GOD was made up within cultures around the world rather than actually existing.

i can see why you would think so, but it's not actually the case. 'Exist' means something different to you than it does to me.

[attofishpi]

Belinda thinks GOD was made up within cultures around the world rather than actually existing.

i can see why you would think so, but it's not actually the case. 'Exist' means something different to you than it does to me.

What does 'exist' mean to you in relation to GOD in the context of a GOD that has intelligence and omnipotence over our reality?