my own reality is now in question

[Noax]

im still curious about your eyes use pixels statement, i mean we both know that's not true, right?

Of course it's true. The eye pixels are called rods and cones. The rods are far more sensitive to low light, but only see in black & white. The cones see in color and need more light to function. Each rod and cone constitutes a pixel, a point that is sensitive to light, very similar to a CCD chip in a digital camera, but not at all similar to the chemical film in the old film cameras.

Any philosopher, in my view, will eventually come head-to-head with the idea of radical skepticism

I actually did not get significant skepticism from the OP except the bit about perhaps eyes not being real, but he didn't say that.
mack7963 is worried about pixels, and I have no idea why a discussion of screens being made up of pixels (they didn't used to be) leading to some weird conclusion about not seeing through eyes.

ChatGPT said:
...
Here are some of the major approaches philosophers take to "get over" radical skepticism:

It seems like all seven approaches are the same thing, worded slightly differently:
Go through life as if stuff is real. Skepticism is just a playtoy for philosophers and philosophy doesn't matter in most pragmatic situations.


I have divided it differently. I have at least two versions of 'me' going on, and the two hold very contradictory beliefs. The one is the pragmatist from whom all the instincts and such come from. The other is the rational one. The two get along and don't mind the conflicts.

[Flannel Jesus]

I actually did not get significant skepticism from the OP except the bit about perhaps eyes not being real, but he didn't say that.
mack7963 is worried about pixels, and I have no idea why a discussion of screens being made up of pixels (they didn't used to be) leading to some weird conclusion about not seeing through eyes.

This quote seems like the start of some radical skepticism:

now i am left wondering what i have been seeing my entire life, are all the people I've met real or just npc's i have placed in 'my' world, even the 'how do i know my entire history wasn't downloaded into my brain this morning

His questioning his entire memory.

[Noax]

This quote seems like the start of some radical skepticism:

His questioning his entire memory.

OK, the NPC bit is definitely a VR reference, but I don't see how the noting that digital TV screens utilize pixels leads one to a suspicion of being in a virtual reality.

Questioning the memory is pretty radical, yes, hard shades of last-Tuesdayism. It implies that whatever your mental processing 'mind' thingy is, it is something that can have its memory [re]written at the whim of some external agent. Certainly a human brain cannot have this done to it, but if one questions one's sensory input, then there ceases to be any evidence that one has a biological brain at all. Everybody presumes a BiV is still a brain, but heck, you don't even know if it is made of matter, or is 3D, or anything.

[Atla]

the other week i was thinking as to why we still rely on pixels for our computer displays, so i asked chat GPT why that is, its answer explained it fairly well and i was happy with that, then something chat GPT said popped back into my head, "light enters the eyes and those signals are sent to the brain which processes the image" so i asked Chat GPT "Does that mean that i don't see with my eyes"?, "yes" was the answer.
since then this realised thought has been constant and I'm not sure what to make of it, my entire life has been spent assuming that what i have seen was always through my eyes, now i am left wondering what i have been seeing my entire life, are all the people I've met real or just npc's i have placed in 'my' world, even the 'how do i know my entire history wasn't downloaded into my brain this morning, i hope someone can help me understand how to make sense of this.

It's called indirect realism (representationalism). Of course you don't see with your eyes, you see with your brain. The eyes just send signals to the brain, which then creates an approximate image of the external world, a representation. The people you've met were real, but you've never directly seen them as they truly are exactly. No, there is no good reason to think that your history was downloaded into your brain.

You can relax, unless you are wildly hallucinating, you can just go back to treating the images in your brain as if you were seeing the external world directly. It's what everyone does and it works well enough.

[Flannel Jesus]

This quote seems like the start of some radical skepticism:

His questioning his entire memory.

OK, the NPC bit is definitely a VR reference, but I don't see how the noting that digital TV screens utilize pixels leads one to a suspicion of being in a virtual reality.

Questioning the memory is pretty radical, yes, hard shades of last-Tuesdayism. It implies that whatever your mental processing 'mind' thingy is, it is something that can have its memory [re]written at the whim of some external agent. Certainly a human brain cannot have this done to it, but if one questions one's sensory input, then there ceases to be any evidence that one has a biological brain at all. Everybody presumes a BiV is still a brain, but heck, you don't even know if it is made of matter, or is 3D, or anything.

I heard it's actually a form of galactic silly-putty

[Wizard22]

im still curious about your eyes use pixels statement, i mean we both know that's not true, right?

FDP was correct, the eye organs have 'cone' receptors, and a great many of them, all of which is converted to 'pixelation' in the brain. However, they are circular and not 'square' shaped like computer pixels, so that's the primary difference. You can call them 'circular pixels' yes. I'm not sure how many the human eye has though, millions perhaps? A biologist would know.

The human eye has severely high resolution and "fps" speeds though, far higher quality than computers available right now. Some animals are also specialized in their visions, like spiders and predator bird species, lions, sharks, whales, etc.

[mack7963]

, i now have a very good reading list to start trying to understand this a little better and i thank you for that.

You don't ever have to stop having some doubt. In fact I think you should. It shouldn't consume you though, and you shouldn't let the "matrix land" hypothesis become a certainty in your mind.

makes perfect sense I guess, but it leaves me thinking if I'm going to accept it I might as well have some fun seeing if its affectable, maybe the only way out of the matrix is death, that was implied in the movie, once with Neos waking up and once with the kid who worships neo, so if death is the only way to prove this isn't real, i think I'll stick around for a while, anyway, thank you for the conversation, it was enjoyable.

[Age]

the other week i was thinking as to why we still rely on pixels for our computer displays, so i asked chat GPT why that is, its answer explained it fairly well and i was happy with that, then something chat GPT said popped back into my head, "light enters the eyes and those signals are sent to the brain which processes the image" so i asked Chat GPT "Does that mean that i don't see with my eyes"?, "yes" was the answer.
since then this realised thought has been constant and I'm not sure what to make of it, my entire life has been spent assuming that what i have seen was always through my eyes, now i am left wondering what i have been seeing my entire life, are all the people I've met real or just npc's i have placed in 'my' world, even the 'how do i know my entire history wasn't downloaded into my brain this morning, i hope someone can help me understand how to make sense of this.

The ONLY thing that can be known, for sure, are existing thoughts, and that there is One aware of existing thought. Everything else could all be just made up or an illusion.

[Age]

wait, you believe the eyes use pixels? really?.

How old are you mack, and which country are you from?

Yes it's true that the brain processes sense-data information, perception, not your "eyes" per se. Your eyes, your nose, even your touch, are all processed by your brain. Therefore, "Reality" is a simulation produced by the brain.

There is 'Reality', which can NOT be refuted, then there are the individual and personal different perceptions, which some call 'realities' but which can be refuted.

'Reality', Itself, is NOT a simulation produced by ANY brain. What is a simulation, of 'Reality', Itself, are the varying different versions of 'Reality', which some just call 'reality'.

[Age]

the other week i was thinking as to why we still rely on pixels for our computer displays, so i asked chat GPT why that is, its answer explained it fairly well and i was happy with that, then something chat GPT said popped back into my head, "light enters the eyes and those signals are sent to the brain which processes the image" so i asked Chat GPT "Does that mean that i don't see with my eyes"?, "yes" was the answer.
since then this realised thought has been constant and I'm not sure what to make of it, my entire life has been spent assuming that what i have seen was always through my eyes, now i am left wondering what i have been seeing my entire life, are all the people I've met real or just npc's i have placed in 'my' world, even the 'how do i know my entire history wasn't downloaded into my brain this morning, i hope someone can help me understand how to make sense of this.

Radical skepticism is an important thought process for any thinker to go through. You should not get permanently stuck on it, however. If we are in some kind of "matrix", there's almost certainly no way out - you are a creature of this matrix and as such, this is your reality. Even if it's not strictly provable that it's real, the balance of utility is that it's more useful to treat it as if it's real.

It would not matter one iota if you are in a 'matrix', and/or 'simulation', you are, STILL, OBVIOUSLY IN 'Reality', Itself. And, it is OBVIOUS that it is 'this Reality' that you human beings are trying to work out and figure out, EXACTLY.

So from there, we go on to just behaving and generally assuming it's real (while still allowing our thoughts occasionally to wander around in the skepticism about this so-called reality we're experiencing), and we try to discover whatever truths we can about this so-called reality.

What do you mean by 'this so-called reality', exactly?

OBVIOUSLY there IS 'Reality', Itself. (Which, by the way, is Truly VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASY to COMPREHEND and UNDERSTAND. That is; once you KNOW HOW TO.)

Also, and ONCE AGAIN, I will suggest that it is FAR BETTER FOR you to NOT ASSUME absolutely ANY thing, here.

That's my take anyway.

Which was ANOTHER example of one's own personal view of things, or their 'own reality', which does not ALIGN EXACTLY WITH 'Reality', Itself.

[Age]

, i now have a very good reading list to start trying to understand this a little better and i thank you for that.

No problem

The reality is, radical skepticism of some kind is always lurking. We don't just receive reality raw as it is, our senses are fallible, our memory is fallible, and we COULD all be in matrix land.

These ones REALLY COULD NOT SEE their CONTRADICTIONS.

ALL of you human beings RECEIVE what is sometimes referred to and called 'Reality' EXACTLY AS 'It' IS.

you human beings, however, TWIST and DISTORT 'Reality', Itself, WITH, and BECAUSE OF, your OWN INDIVIDUAL and DIFFERENT past experiences.

So the question isn't "how can I prove reality is real and this isn't matrix land?". The question is, "How can I come to accept this place for what it is, and not let my doubts about this possible matrix-land ruin my time here?"

BUT, since the first question IS PROVABLE ANYWAY, why then worry, or be concerned with and, about the second question, here?

You don't ever have to stop having some doubt. In fact I think you should. It shouldn't consume you though, and you shouldn't let the "matrix land" hypothesis become a certainty in your mind.

ONCE MORE you human beings do NOT have 'your minds'.

[Flannel Jesus]

Age is too dumb. The people of the future know. Hell even the people of the present know.

[Age]

Age is too dumb. The people of the future know. Hell even the people of the present know.

LOL you do not even TRY TO counter nor refute what I said and wrote, because of the OBVIOUS Fact. you, instead, just say and write, 'Age is too dumb'. And then CLAIM that, 'The people of the future know', as well as, 'Hell even the people of the present know'.

Which if ANY one takes ANY time out to consider, AT ALL, then what you said and wrote SPEAKS LOUD and CLEAR.

So, WHO, EXACTLY, are the so-called 'people of the present', AND, 'the people of the future'?

Not that you would EVER ANSWER and CLARIFY. Again, because of the OBVIOUS Fact.

[Age]

"flannel jesus" ACTUALLY BELIEVES that it does NOT receive 'Reality', Itself.

Which MEANS that "flannel jesus" RECEIVES something ELSE, instead.

[Flannel Jesus]

Age receives cock