Bending light by electro-magnetism!

[Aetixintro]

I think I'll state here right away that is in fact possible to bend light with a very strong, elelctro-generated magnetic field comparable to light from Mercury passing the gravity field of the Sun, like in the classic example of Einstein Relativity Theory.

Remember the lev-trains of the Japanese and their magnet experiments where they lift an object up only by the use of electro-magnetism and draw a sheet of paper underneath, between the lower and the upper physical bodies.

You should also have in mind the relative small size of the photon and the power of the elctro-magnetic field because I think it's fairly feasible.

Now, how this is done? At least for the calculation, it's fairly known how much pull the gravity of the Sun generates and the Planck's Mass(?) of the Photon should also be possible to consider. Then it's just to add the numbers and calculate what it takes to bend light. I also think this can be done in the classroom!

[Edit, Unsp.:] Wikipedia on magnets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnets! [End of edit.]

The calculations are up to you to make, but at least for now, I remain optimistic (partly because I've seen it demonstrated in our classroom while finishing upper secondary school having the physics class. Rather this than any negative demonstation I can recall or heard of). Thus, kill the negative notions you read about on the internet, please!

I'd love to hear about your own searches. I haven't come up with the positive results just yet.

I'm also writing this primarily for public education and quenching myths of people who cite uncertain, novice sources.

So here you are! You have, at least, the calculations! Cheers!

[Edit, 25.02.2011:] The calculations:
Numbers to begin with.
Earth's gravity - 9,81 m/s2 (seconds in 2nd power), this is Earth's "g". "G" is 1 kg x 9,81 m/s2 = 9,81 kgm/s(2)
Earth's mass - 5,974 x 10(24) kg (10 in 24th power, by kilograms)
Sun's gravity - Radius - 6,96 x 10(8) m (10 in 8th power, by meters)
Sun's mass - 1,99 x 10(30) kg (10 in 30th power, by kilograms)
Assumption - the gravity of the Sun is proportional to Earth's in terms of mass (given by kg)
Sun's mass divided by Earth's mass times (x) Earth's gravity (g) equals Sun's gravity
Thus gravity of the Sun, finally - 3,331 x 10(5) x 9,81 m/s(2) = 32,677 x 10(5) m/s(2)
From here we need to find the Tesla equivalents or Newton equivalents or that which is relevant and the best for the calculations.
(I've used constants from "Fysikktabeller" (Tables for Physics) by Cappelen Damm and it's free and downloadable from the internet.)
More later.
[End of edit.]

[John]

The calculations are up to you to make, but at least for now, I remain optimistic (partly because I've seen it demonstrated in our classroom while finishing upper secondary school having the physics class. Rather this than any negative demonstation I can recall or heard of). Thus, kill the negative notions you read about on the internet!

Exactly what experiment did you see in school that demonstrated this?

[Arising_uk]

Sorry...I thought photon colliders using electro-magnets have been around for a while now?

Although I doubt you can do it in the classroom?

[John]

Sorry...I thought photon colliders using electro-magnets have been around for a while now?

My physics is a bit rusty but don't photon colliders collide other particles, such as electrons, and use the photons produced in the collision to infer results? I don't believe they're manipulating photons with EM, particularly as photons don't have charge.

[Arising_uk]

My apologies as my Physics appears to be non-existent.

It seems that they are still in the theoretical but feasible stage. Or at least were in 2008, http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breakin ... e-the-ilc/ (not sure how reliable this link is).

Liked the question in the replies tho', "How do you get two photons to collide"?

[John]

I think I read something about quantum effects of EM on photons but I think it was theoretical or almost impossible to measure. I'm not entirely sure as, to be honest, it's all way beyond my physics (which I haven't studied for 20 years and is now a bit of a distant memory).

If Aetixintro thinks everyone is missing something simple though I'd urge him to get on with proving it because there may be a Nobel Prize in it for him.

[Aetixintro]

I don't think there's anything significant between the gravity field of Earth that has a north and a south pole, just like (electro-)magnetic fields have, a north and a south pole! So, I'm not this crazy dude, just to make it clear!

I also happen to think that the "gravity" goes from the negative pole to the positive pole. I think it's a point also that the calculations are pretty clear to whether it can be done or not! I'm unsure, though, on how the gravity on the Sun is, in comparison to the measurements of light from Mercury, considering the north and the south pole. It may be that the gravity field of the Sun is a bit more "hazy", i.e., it has not such a clearly defined gravity field. The gravity field of the Earth is also not entirely stable, but this is a digression!

[Edit:] Its quite easy to generate an electro-magnetic field in the classroom using electro-magnets. They can indeed be very small and they can also be very powerful. I think there may also have been a special electrical power line into the classroom, set up by the electrical company to make it possible. As I've noted, you can check it out yourself by doing the calculations.

Cheers!

[John]

I don't think there's anything significant between the gravity field of Earth that has a north and a south pole, just like (electro-)magnetic fields have, a north and a south pole! So, I'm not this crazy dude, just to make it clear!

I also happen to think that the "gravity" goes from the negative pole to the positive pole.

Why do you say that? Do you just like the idea or do you actually have some solid theoretical basis for making these assertions?

I think it's a point also that the calculations are pretty clear to whether it can be done or not!

So why haven't they been done?

I'm unsure, though, on how the gravity on the Sun is, in comparison to the measurements of light from Mercury, considering the north and the south pole. It may be that the gravity field of the Sun is a bit more "hazy", i.e., it has not such a clearly defined gravity field. The gravity field of the Earth is also not entirely stable, but this is a digression!

Again, what's the basis of these assertions you're making?

[Aetixintro]

That magnetic fields have poles is a basic FACT! I'm suggesting they have been done. It's just that the unserious non-sense seems to get listed ahead of the serious! Perhaps, also one likes to keep the myths alive!

See if you can place the suggestion with the Mythbusters, please! Cheers!

[John]

That magnetic fields have poles is a basic FACT!

Yes I know that but you seem to be saying that earth's gravity has a north and south pole. Is that what you're saying?

[converge]

Light is electromagnetic radiation. A photon is the "quantum" of electromagnetism... It "is" electromagnetism, so it's improper to say that it is "affected by" electromagnetism. The electromagnetic field only affects charged particles; and photons do not have a charge, so they do not affect each other that way. Gravity and magnetism are two completely different things that don't have much in common. The gravity of the Earth has nothing to do with the magnetism of the poles and vice-versa. Gravity affects all particles and affects light as well.

[Aetixintro]

That magnetic fields have poles is a basic FACT!

Yes I know that but you seem to be saying that earth's gravity has a north and south pole. Is that what you're saying?

YES! I think magnetic field forces are comparable to gravity and one property they have in common is exactly this, they HAVE both north and south poles!

[John]

That magnetic fields have poles is a basic FACT!

Yes I know that but you seem to be saying that earth's gravity has a north and south pole. Is that what you're saying?

YES! I think magnetic field forces are comparable to gravity and one property they have in common is exactly this, they HAVE both north and south poles!

OK, so you've decided this because you think it's a good idea then. Or to put it another way: this thread is a complete waste of time.

[Aetixintro]

Your subjective view...

[John]

Your subjective view...

Come back with a sound basis for your theory, and preferably a recognised physics qualification, and I'll re-evaluate my position. Otherwise I think I'm being pretty objective when I consider it a waste of time discussing it.

Areas like philosophy, politics or many others are open to discussion and debate by the professional and the lay person alike, albeit to differing degrees. Specialist technical areas like physics or other natural sciences aren't. Unless you can show us that you deserve to be taken as seriously as the professionals who spend all their time and millions of dollars researching this sort of thing then I can't see why anyone would take your idea seriously.