Is morality objective or subjective?

[Immanuel Can]

You are such a crippled zealot that you can only conceive of morality as a facet of faith.

You don't have to be a zealot, or a religious person at all.

Just be an Atheist, and use some logic, and you'll come to exactly the same conclusion. Nietzsche did. And I suppose you can call him a "zealot" too, if you want. But most Atheist would probably be upset with you slaying one of their great 'saints' in such a way.

I couldn't care less about Nietzsche,...

The most logical and consistent Atheist, speaking about Atheistic morality, and you couldn't care less about him? (That's the grammatically correct way to say it, by the way.)

I guess it's easy to tell what kind of Atheist you are, then.

[Immanuel Can]

If atheists have nothing then theists have less than nothing.

Yes, of course...Atheism has nothing, and is down a cul-de-sac...and the first thing we try to do is switch the spotlight off Atheism, and excuse Atheism's inadequacies by alleging that its opponents are equally feeble, equally inept, equally incapable of grounding morality.

Predictable, and irrelevant to Atheism's own inadequacies, of course. Other moral projects failing (even if they all did) would not mend the defects in Atheism's view of morality.

[FlashDangerpants]

You don't have to be a zealot, or a religious person at all.

Just be an Atheist, and use some logic, and you'll come to exactly the same conclusion. Nietzsche did. And I suppose you can call him a "zealot" too, if you want. But most Atheist would probably be upset with you slaying one of their great 'saints' in such a way.

I couldn't care less about Nietzsche,...

The most logical and consistent Atheist, speaking about Atheistic morality, and you couldn't care less about him? (That's the grammatically correct way to say it, by the way.)

I guess it's easy to tell what kind of Atheist you are, then.

I'm sorry, what was the point of this grammatical intervention?

You don't get to tell me how to be an atheist, you can fuck off.

[Atla]

If atheists have nothing then theists have less than nothing.

Yes, of course...Atheism has nothing, and is down a cul-de-sac...and the first thing we try to do is switch the spotlight off Atheism, and excuse Atheism's inadequacies by alleging that its opponents are equally feeble, equally inept, equally incapable of grounding morality.

Predictable, and irrelevant to Atheism's own inadequacies, of course. Other moral projects failing (even if they all did) would not mend the defects in Atheism's view of morality.

Please don't lie so blatantly by talking about equality. Theists are far more feeble, inept, incapable of grounding morality.

[Immanuel Can]

I'm sorry, what was the point of this grammatical intervention?

Clarity. You said the opposite of what you meant, it would seem.

You don't get to tell me how to be an atheist,

I'm not. And apparently, you're not even telling yourself what an Atheist believes. You're living without logic and consistency, if you think Atheism can rationalize any actual morality.

And even the Atheists can tell you that much.

[Immanuel Can]

If atheists have nothing then theists have less than nothing.

Yes, of course...Atheism has nothing, and is down a cul-de-sac...and the first thing we try to do is switch the spotlight off Atheism, and excuse Atheism's inadequacies by alleging that its opponents are equally feeble, equally inept, equally incapable of grounding morality.

Predictable, and irrelevant to Atheism's own inadequacies, of course. Other moral projects failing (even if they all did) would not mend the defects in Atheism's view of morality.

Please don't lie so blatantly by talking about equality.

I said nothing about "equality." I don't believe that Atheism and other worldviews are "equal" in this. That was your ruse, not mine. I'm saying that even if you could show "equality" in ineffectiveness between Atheism and other worldviews, it still would do zippo to fix the problem inherent to Atheism itself.

Your argument is like somebody saying, "Your Honour (in the UK, "Your Lordship"), it's true I murdered six people. But so did my cousin Tom, my niece Phillis, and the entire dancing cast of 'Hamilton' -- so you should let me go."

Nothing they did or failed to do fixes what you did. Likewise, if Atheism cannot rationalize morality, arguing that you think other people can't doesn't help the Atheist case one bit.

[Atla]

I said nothing about "equality." I don't believe that Atheism and other worldviews are "equal" in this. That was your ruse, not mine.

Again, it was your ruse, not mine. Stop lying.

[FlashDangerpants]

I'm sorry, what was the point of this grammatical intervention?

Clarity. You said the opposite of what you meant, it would seem.

You don't get to tell me how to be an atheist,

I'm not. And apparently, you're not even telling yourself what an Atheist believes. You're living without logic and consistency, if you think Atheism can rationalize any actual morality.

And even the Atheists can tell you that much.

Why did you condescend to me about writing "couldn't care less" when I had written that I "couldn't care less" without any need for your schoolmasterly bullshit? You corrected me with the same thing that I wrote. Are you going senile?

The problem I am pointing to with your reasoning is that you are incapable of understanding that most of us don't let religion determine our lives. All your nonsense about whether "Atheism can rationalize any actual morality" just goes to prove my point. The issue here is you, you are not good enough for this conversation.

[Immanuel Can]

I said nothing about "equality." I don't believe that Atheism and other worldviews are "equal" in this. That was your ruse, not mine.

Again, it was your ruse, not mine. Stop lying.

Reread the above. Maybe you'll "get there."

[Immanuel Can]

...most of us don't let religion determine our lives.

Yep, I know that. But it's apparently only true in the small place in which you personally live.

On a world scale, the opposite is true...92% of people believe in some sort of religion or God, and another 4% consider it plausible. (CIA Factbook) You're in the 4% left over. Not that it matters, because that's just "bandwagon fallacy." Numbers don't make something right.

But if you think I'm wrong, just show one thing that Atheism teaches us morally. One thing. Just one. Only one. Can you do one? I'll let you pick it.

[Atla]

I said nothing about "equality." I don't believe that Atheism and other worldviews are "equal" in this. That was your ruse, not mine.

Again, it was your ruse, not mine. Stop lying.

Reread the above. Maybe you'll "get there."

Reread the above. Maybe you'll "get there."

[FlashDangerpants]

...most of us don't let religion determine our lives.

Yep, I know that. But it's apparently only true in the small place in which you personally live.

On a world scale, the opposite is true...92% of people believe in some sort of religion or God, and another 4% consider it plausible. (CIA Factbook) You're in the 4% left over. Not that it matters, because that's just "bandwagon fallacy." Numbers don't make something right.

But if you think I'm wrong, just show one thing that Atheism teaches us morally. One thing. Just one. Only one. Can you do one? I'll let you pick it.

Let's rehydrate what I wrote shall we...?
The problem I am pointing to with your reasoning is that you are incapable of understanding that most of us don't let religion determine our lives. All your nonsense about whether "Atheism can rationalize any actual morality" just goes to prove my point. The issue here is you, you are not good enough for this conversation.

Now you have further made my point for me with .... "just show one thing that Atheism teaches us morally". Again, showing that the problem here is you.

The rate of religious belief in Sub Sarahan Africa or the American Rust Belt are neither here nor there to anything.

We're just going to pretend you didn't condescend to me with that "couldn't care less thing" and then fuck it up like an idiot are we?

[Immanuel Can]

...most of us don't let religion determine our lives.

Yep, I know that. But it's apparently only true in the small place in which you personally live.

On a world scale, the opposite is true...92% of people believe in some sort of religion or God, and another 4% consider it plausible. (CIA Factbook) You're in the 4% left over. Not that it matters, because that's just "bandwagon fallacy." Numbers don't make something right.

But if you think I'm wrong, just show one thing that Atheism teaches us morally. One thing. Just one. Only one. Can you do one? I'll let you pick it.

Let's rehydrate what I wrote shall we...?

Anything that was worth noting in it has already been addressed. The rest was just 'water.'

We're just going to pretend you didn't condescend to me with that "couldn't care less thing" and then fuck it up like an idiot are we?

"We" aren't actually going to do anything about it. You're either going to accept calmly that you misspoke and chuckle and say, "Well, I guess he's right," or you're going to go postal with it.

But I'm going to have an iced tea and sit in the sun.

[FlashDangerpants]

I couldn't care less about Nietzsche,...

you couldn't care less about him? (That's the grammatically correct way to say it, by the way.)

Erm....?

[Immanuel Can]

I couldn't care less about Nietzsche,...

you couldn't care less about him? (That's the grammatically correct way to say it, by the way.)

Erm....?

Ah, you're right.

Now I'm having that iced tea anyway.