Is Consciousness Computable?

[attofishpi]

It may not even be complexity that is the factor. Perhaps it's substance: silicon based brains will never experience though they may carry out functions perhaps, because carbon is key. We haven't the slightest idea what experiences, what does not experience nor how or why.

I agree that my use of the term 'complexity' regarding what is involved in sentient consciousness is not appropriate, in fact that is something the "YAYS" would use in an effort to state consciousness computable!

yes, I think there is correlation there with the YAYS. We can do simple things. Now we can do more complicated things. Consciousness is a function of complicated networks...so we will be able to create it. My position differs from yours, I think, in that I don't rule out that they can or will create some conscious thing. I think that's possible. I do not think it will be due to computation. I think that's a category error. And, actually, I think it's pretty ugly to try to create something conscious. Perhaps some silicon based artificial neural network will be in agony all the time. And then all the problems possible with the creation of AIs as threats to us, regardless of whether they are conscious or not. I am not saying they will create some conscious thing, just that I don't rule it out. The possibility makes me no less critical of the whole endeavor. Kids play with matches in dry woods.

I've also said that I wouldn't rule it out, but it would likely be a biological entity.

[Iwannaplato]

I agree that my use of the term 'complexity' regarding what is involved in sentient consciousness is not appropriate, in fact that is something the "YAYS" would use in an effort to state consciousness computable!

yes, I think there is correlation there with the YAYS. We can do simple things. Now we can do more complicated things. Consciousness is a function of complicated networks...so we will be able to create it. My position differs from yours, I think, in that I don't rule out that they can or will create some conscious thing. I think that's possible. I do not think it will be due to computation. I think that's a category error. And, actually, I think it's pretty ugly to try to create something conscious. Perhaps some silicon based artificial neural network will be in agony all the time. And then all the problems possible with the creation of AIs as threats to us, regardless of whether they are conscious or not. I am not saying they will create some conscious thing, just that I don't rule it out. The possibility makes me no less critical of the whole endeavor. Kids play with matches in dry woods.

I've also said that I wouldn't rule it out, but it would likely be a biological entity.

Ah, ok, then our positions are close. And yes, who knows what it will be. To be like us, it will need to have some kind of flexible system, something that learns, not something that is programmed. And who the hell knows what that entity will be like.

[Veritas Aequitas]

You have overlooked this statement I made above:
IF AI interfaces to biology, then perhaps one day, what was once merely a machine MAY become consciously sentient - HOWEVER, that sentient consciousness is never going to be reducible to mathematical equations.

And in that you are stating above has NOTHING to do with what this topic is about - whether CONSCIOUSNESS is computable (NOT whether feeding electrical impulses to what is ALREADY consciouss is going to give an input - such a via prosthetics (As in your above waffle)

U really are tedious to deal with.

Actually you are the one who has overlooked the statement I made above;

viewtopic.php?p=617274#p617274
Why must it be mathematical?
As Gödel's incompleteness theorems, whatever is grounded on mathematics, it is limited.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6de ... s_theorems

Nevertheless, it can be represented via a mathematic formula in some limited ways.

Rather note 'computable'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computable_function

IF AI interfaces to biology, then perhaps one day, what was once merely a machine MAY become consciously sentient - HOWEVER, that sentient consciousness is never going to be reducible to mathematical equations.

Something like E = MC2?

You are asking the impossible.

It took appx. 4 billion years for the present human consciousness to evolve from abiogenesis of the first one-celled living thing from RNA.
It is not practical [impossible] to replicate this and to put that into a mathematical equation.

Note this problem re the definition of what is consciousness?

Consciousness, at its simplest, is sentience and awareness of internal and external existence.[1] However, the lack of definitions has led to millennia of analyses, explanations and debates by philosophers, theologians, linguisticians, and scientists.
Opinions differ about what exactly needs to be studied or even considered consciousness.
In some explanations, it is synonymous with the mind, and at other times, an aspect of mind. In the past, it was one's "inner life", the world of introspection, of private thought, imagination and volition.[2]

Today, it often includes any kind of cognition, experience, feeling or perception.
It may be awareness, awareness of awareness, or self-awareness either continuously changing or not.[3][4]

The disparate range of research, notions and speculations raises a curiosity about whether the right questions are being asked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

I believe the last point above is related to "the hard problem of consciousness" which is not the right question for what is consciousness; it not a logical question as it is infected with equivocation.

Consciousness is not a question for physics and mathematics like reducible gravity, atoms, quarks, and the likes.
I believe the issues with Consciousness should be driven by Biology & Psychology with Chemistry & Physics in the background within BioChemistry. Btw, I took courses in BioChemsistry from Harvardx and Genetics, Molecular Biology, Genomics and Rational Medicine MITx.

Note the Problems of the Definition of Consciousness;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscious ... definition

Consciousness is something dynamic and continuously evolving; thus consciousness should more rightly belong to a question involving primarily biology & psychology [evolutionary]. Mathematics can be used but that is secondary. What is more important is computable models and algorithms that will generate equivalent results as in reality.

I believe the problem you are barking at should be the question of abiogenesis, how did life [Biology & Psychology] originate from non-life [Chemistry & Physics]. This concern of yours is driven [selfishly] by your internal existential angst towards an ontological consciousness-in-itself originating from a God.

As for real consciousness what is most critical is - regardless of the answer to abiogenesis- consciousness is empirically real that is verifiable and justifiable, thus objective.
From this real consciousness, the most critical focus for humanity is to re-engineer its functions and structures so that it can be replicated via computable models in addition to enhancing our average level of consciousness in terms of cognition [intelligences] towards the optimal well being of humanity.

[attofishpi]

So after all that waffle, you think there is a yet to be discovered mathematical equation for the sensation you feel when you scratch the back of your hand?

[Iwannaplato]

So after all that waffle, you think there is a yet to be discovered mathematical equation for the sensation you feel when you scratch the back of your hand?

VA seems not to remember the title of his thread and my god, what a word salad at the end. Nice use of quasi passive speech tossed in by VA, also, to imply that his values are universal.

From this real consciousness, the most critical focus for humanity is to re-engineer its functions and structures so that it can be replicated via computable models in addition to enhancing our average level of consciousness in terms of cognition [intelligences] towards the optimal well being of humanity.