Christianity

[Harbal]

There's practically nothing the flocks of sheep won't believe in order to keep oblivion at bay. Though, admittedly, I'd believe it too if I could.

I don't know why anyone is afraid of oblivion. It's not like they would experience it. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[attofishpi]

Well it's obvious. They would have presented him with counter arguments that would leave him without any grounds to stand on. Sure, I doubt they'd convince him to have any faith beyond his faith in there being no God, but he could never walk away and write a smug arrogant book about how deluded THEY are.

Dawkins is a main stream scientist who, I believe, has specialised in evolution, and what he has to say on the subject carries weight. As for his anti-religion campaigning, that is something else. He's just evangelising from the other side of the road, and I find him a bit irritating in that respect. Why people have to stand on soap boxes to try and convince each other of the existence, or non-existance, of God is beyond me.

I have a fondness for truth, so I look to science, rather than religion, to satisfy my curiosity. You know I don't believe in God, but I don't actually care whether he exists or not, and I don't really understand why people make such a big deal about it.

So.

You want the truth so you look to science to satisfy your curiosity.

Then we are the same, but I went one step futher.

I look to science and also have faith in the life of Christ. So the only diffence with your statement is that I believe in the life\death\res. of Christ.

One of us KNOWS the binary truth as to whether there is or isn't a God.

I guess having faith pays dividends. (when it comes to THE biggest quest in Philosophy - whether God exists.)

[Harbal]

I guess having faith pays dividends. (when it comes to THE biggest quest in Philosophy - whether God exists.)

I'm afraid I have to disagree with that, fishy. My opinion is that there's no place for God in philosophy.

[iambiguous]

There's practically nothing the flocks of sheep won't believe in order to keep oblivion at bay. Though, admittedly, I'd believe it too if I could.

I don't know why anyone is afraid of oblivion. It's not like they would experience it. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Yeah, I know there are those able to "think themselves" into actually believing this. That classic scene from Hannah and Her Sisters:

Mickey: Aren't you afraid of dying?
Father: Why be afraid?
Mickey: You won't exist! That doesn't terrify you?
Father: I'm alive. When I'm dead, I'm dead.
Mickey: Aren't you frightened?
Father: I'll be unconscious.
Mickey: But never to exist again?
Father: How do you know? Who knows what'll be? I'll either be unconscious, or I won't. If not, I'll deal with it then. I won't worry now.
Mickey: Mom, come out of the bathroom.
Mother: Of course there's a God, you idiot. You don't believe in God?
Mickey: Then why is there so much evil in the world? On a simple level, why were there Nazis?
Mother: Tell him, Max.


Sure, I wish I could believe that myself.

But I'm still preoccupied with the fact death will mean everything that now brings me enormous pleasure and fulfillment is obliterated for all time to come along with me.

Also, it's a whole lot easier to think like you when you are still relatively young and healthy. Death is still something way down the road. Your own death doesn't pop up in your head much "here and now" because here and now it doesn't have to pop into it.

All that "existential" stuff.

[promethean75]

*nods*

The situation is so absurd it's necessary to invent one. Or is it? Pends on whatchu tryna do. But of logical necessity, certainly no. There is no need to fill gaps in with 'god', whatever that word means.

[attofishpi]

I guess having faith pays dividends. (when it comes to THE biggest quest in Philosophy - whether God exists.)

I'm afraid I have to disagree with that, fishy. My opinion is that there's no place for God in philosophy.

Why are you afraid?

How can you say there is no place for God in philosophy?

Certainly the latter statement is the most unwise thing I have read on a forum dedicated to 'love of wisdom'.

[Harbal]

Also, it's a whole lot easier to think like you when you are still relatively young and healthy. Death is still something way down the road. Your own death doesn't pop up in your head much "here and now" because here and now it doesn't have to pop into it.

How old do you think I'll have to be before I start worrying about death?

[Sculptor]

If you only had room for 10 commandments as advice to live a good life what would they be?

I'd wager that decent people would only retain 3 or 4 of the big ten offered by Christianity.

[attofishpi]

If you only had room for 10 commandments as advice to live a good life what would they be?

I'd wager that decent people would only retain 3 or 4 of the big ten offered by Christianity.

Well. List 'em. Let's us have some fun.

[Harbal]

Why are you afraid?

Because I don't particularly like disagreeing with you, but you're right, I'm not actually afraid of it.

How can you say there is no place for God in philosophy?

Because there are so many questions in philosophy where the inclusion of God affects the answer, which leads to the wrong answer.

Certainly the latter statement is the most unwise thing I have read on a forum dedicated to 'love of wisdom'.

I guess I love truth more than wisdom.

[attofishpi]

My opinion is that there's no place for God in philosophy.

So.

Philosophy = Love of Wisdom.

What is WISE below:

1. It is wise not to believe there is a God.

2. It is wise to have one's knowledge gained in this life wiped and reincarnate anew or be dead for the rest of eternity.

3. It is wise to believe there is a God, as this entity has promised eternal life where the knowledge you gained is retained for the rest of eternity.


So the stance of Harbal is at point 1 where the best possible outcome is point 2.

Which of the above 3 points Mr Harbal is the one that best reflects PHILOSOPHY = Love of Wisdom?

[Harbal]

So.

Philosophy = Love of Wisdom.

What is WISE below:

1. It is wise not to believe there is a God.

2. It is wise to have one's knowledge gained in this life wiped and reincarnate anew or be dead for the rest of eternity.

3. It is wise to believe there is a God, as this entity has promised eternal life where the knowledge you gained is retained for the rest of eternity.


So the stance of Harbal is at point 1 where the best possible outcome is point 2.

Which of the above 3 points Mr Harbal is the one that best reflects PHILOSOPHY = Love of Wisdom?

None. If you add a fourth option, it is wise not to believe things that are highly unlikely to be true, I'll vote for that one.

[Sculptor]

If you only had room for 10 commandments as advice to live a good life what would they be?

I'd wager that decent people would only retain 3 or 4 of the big ten offered by Christianity.

Well. List 'em. Let's us have some fun.

I asked the forum for their choices.

[Immanuel Can]

The ‘purpose’ of life, moral and spiritual questions, these can be discerned as instilled within the creation itself (in conscious beings) without resorting to mythical fabulations.

"Instilled"? By what?

And please, do explain how these are "discerned" by you. I'm very interested. I often wonder how skeptics manage to convince themselves that they have "discerned" such things...on what basis, and using what method.

Go ahead. I'm attentive.

What you hope to achieve is that people here will agree and say *by a god* *by a creator* *by a divine intelligence* who also rules and watches over the creation in a way similar to the Christian story.

No, I just wanted you to tell the truth, that's all. Whatever force, thing, or entity, or whatever you think does it, you can name.

And while you're at it, please expain by what method you "discern" what you say you "discern" about that.

I'm listening. Go ahead. The ball's in your court, and I'm not telling you what to say.

[Immanuel Can]

Are we "waiting"?

Well I'm not.

No, I suppose there would be good reason not to.

But at least we owe them the chance to answer, even if we strongly suspect they can't.