What causes muslims to be violent

[Averroes]

Some years ago Tony Blair and George Bush got on their knees to the CHRISTIAN GOD.
They asked for guidance concerning the proposed invasion or Iraq and they got their answer.

Having lied, and cheated and falsified information they were now equipped to follow God's plan.

What followed was a conflict whose repercussions are still being felt by the people of Iraq and several nations that bordered it.

As a direct result of their Holy War, or Crusade as Bush called it, more than 400,000 (conservative estimate) deaths occurred. With many more lives ruined. Many estimates more than double that number
US military deaths was in excess of 4000, with 32000 wounding.

You forgot to mention the 140 million(again conservative estimate) of the native Americans who were slaughtered by the Christians who first came to America from Europe!

[Immanuel Can]

False there has never been a war fought for, or in the interests of promoting atheism.

Every Marxists "struggle" ever was exactly that.

How do you not know? In fact, how do you not know, for example, that none of the 20th Centuries wars were even remotely religious, or that Marxist regimes are Atheist?

How does somebody grow up with so little history?

[Immanuel Can]

You are right when you said that some Christians, or rather those who claimed themselves to be Christians, have been and still are producing the most violence.

Ummm...no. Not even close to historically true.

We are using different history books and logical systems, that's why we disagree.

No, I am using the definition of "Christian."

[Immanuel Can]

You forgot to mention the 140 million(again conservative estimate) of the native Americans who were slaughtered by the Christians who first came to America from Europe!

Ummm...the most generous estimates put the entire Indian population in America at the time of Columbus at 18 million. There are no estimates any higher then that. ("Conservative", indeed. ) Unless your alleged Christians found a way to kill them all 7or 8 times over, you're not going to get anything close to that. And that's if we allow that everybody who came to America was "Christian."

Hilarious.

[Averroes]

Ummm...no. Not even close to historically true.

We are using different history books and logical systems, that's why we disagree.

No, I am using the definition of "Christian."

Good. So, let us start from that to synchronize our definitions. Can you please tell me if believing that biblical Jesus is God is necessary to be a Christian in your definition of a Christian? Can someone who does not believe that Jesus was God, be a Christian? And do you yourself believe that biblical Jesus is God?

[Averroes]

You forgot to mention the 140 million(again conservative estimate) of the native Americans who were slaughtered by the Christians who first came to America from Europe!

Ummm...the most generous estimates put the entire Indian population in America at the time of Columbus at 18 million. There are no estimates any higher then that. ("Conservative", indeed. ) Unless your alleged Christians found a way to kill them all 7or 8 times over, you're not going to get anything close to that. And that's if we allow that everybody who came to America was "Christian."

Hilarious.

Worry not about this for now, this message was not addressed to you. I have my sources which I can produce as reference in due time if need be. For now let's go step by step and synchronize our definitions first to get a common ground of meaning for further purposeful discussion.

[Immanuel Can]

So, let us start from that to synchronize our definitions. Can you please tell me if believing that biblical Jesus is God is necessary to be a Christian in your definition of a Christian? Can someone who does not believe that Jesus was God, be a Christian? And do you yourself believe that biblical Jesus is God?

Yes to the first, no to the second, and yes to the third.

[Immanuel Can]

have my sources which I can produce as reference in due time if need be.

Your sources are outrightly lying if they're telling you there were anywhere near that many North American Indians at any time. Sorry.

[Averroes]

So, let us start from that to synchronize our definitions. Can you please tell me if believing that biblical Jesus is God is necessary to be a Christian in your definition of a Christian? Can someone who does not believe that Jesus was God, be a Christian? And do you yourself believe that biblical Jesus is God?

Yes to the first, no to the second, and yes to the third.

Conciseness, I like that very much. Thank you for replying, we are getting somewhere. Now, from where did you get the idea that Jesus was God? I read the Bible, and nowhere did biblical Jesus said that he was God. In fact, he made it clear in the Bible that he was not God. Can you enlighten me on your sources for your belief in Jesus being God?

[Averroes]

have my sources which I can produce as reference in due time if need be.

Your sources are outrightly lying if they're telling you there were anywhere near that many North American Indians at any time. Sorry.

Don't feel sorry, and again don't worry about that. We have more important things to discuss. I was addressing Sculptor with that message. We can discuss that later after we have reached a common ground of shared meaning. Don't worry we have time, God willing.

[seeds]

As it pertains to the topic of this thread, I have already offered a few of my suggestions as to what causes Muslims to be violent. See the posts in the following links:
viewtopic.php?p=468791#p468791
viewtopic.php?p=468878#p468878

However, let’s address one of your questions to Immanuel Can:

...may I ask you whether you believe if Jesus is God or not? Many Christians believe Jesus is God, but nowhere in the Bible available nowadays did biblical Jesus said that he was God. In fact, in many verses in the Bible, biblical Jesus made clear distinctions between him and God.

Yes, that is a problematic issue that seems to have entered into Christian dogma because of the Trinity nonsense declared by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. To which I have suggested elsewhere that Islam (being a part of the Abrahamic family of religions) has attempted to steer the project back onto its initial (and proper) course of monotheism.

With that being said, and seeing how you are right to question Immanuel Can about the dubious idea of Jesus being God,...

...then it seems only fair that one should be able to ask you whether or not you believe that Islamic male martyrs will each receive 72 virgin maidens in paradise as a reward for their sacrifice?
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[onglob]

Perhaps the reason is that they were persecuted by the Christians from the beggining;

As far as I know , the major battle of moslems with other nation to gain territories and to gain
enough power and incentive for expansion , was the invasion of moslems in the Arabian peninsula into Persian empire that had mostly Zoroastrian population .
And if they had any encounters with christian nations it were in later stages and mostly as offensive battles .
But the fact is that superstitions cannot be a basis for morality but it can be consistent with violence, so all religions are more or less entwined with violence and the problem is that they have lots of followers, and it's not wise to denounce one of them because of its violence .

Instead , I guess , if want a world free of religious violence , we should depart from any kind of religion .

[Averroes]

As it pertains to the topic of this thread, I have already offered a few of my suggestions as to what causes Muslims to be violent. See the posts in the following links:
viewtopic.php?p=468791#p468791
viewtopic.php?p=468878#p468878

However, let’s address one of your questions to Immanuel Can:

...may I ask you whether you believe if Jesus is God or not? Many Christians believe Jesus is God, but nowhere in the Bible available nowadays did biblical Jesus said that he was God. In fact, in many verses in the Bible, biblical Jesus made clear distinctions between him and God.

Yes, that is a problematic issue that seems to have entered into Christian dogma because of the Trinity nonsense declared by the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. To which I have suggested elsewhere that Islam (being a part of the Abrahamic family of religions) has attempted to steer the project back onto its initial (and proper) course of monotheism.

With that being said, and seeing how you are right to question Immanuel Can about the dubious idea of Jesus being God,...

...then it seems only fair that one should be able to ask you whether or not you believe that Islamic male martyrs will each receive 72 virgin maidens in paradise as a reward for their sacrifice?
_______

You got the history of the Trinity right. Indeed, it's a total fabrication and no basis whatsoever in the words of the biblical Jesus in the Christian Bible. And that it makes no sense as you said is even acknowledged by the Christian themselves. So by you qualifying it as "nonsense", it's not even an insult in the Christian mindset as they wholeheartedly embrace it as such!

In Paradise if we make it there, God willing, the pleasures are tremendous indeed as described by the messengers of God, the Almighty. In Islam, Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) is one of the great messengers of God, the Almighty. The greater one's level of piety in this world, the greater the reward in the Hereafter, there is no doubt about it.

May I now ask you if you believe in God, the Creator of the Universe and the Creator of mankind and everything in the Universe?

[Immanuel Can]

Conciseness, I like that very much.

Good. Then let me remain concise.

The OP concerns the following topic: "What causes Muslims to be violent?"

Do you have any perspective on that OP?

[seeds]

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We’re tending to get a little off-topic here, but it seems as though the originator of the thread...

(a onetime “drive-by” poster)

...couldn’t care less about participating and guiding the direction of the discussion, so what the heck.
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