The Scapegoat

[Dontaskme]

Awareness is thought. And only it observes.

Awareness is not thought.

There is awareness of thought.

There can be awareness without thought...but there cannot be thought without awareness.

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Now that's just stupid.

Why is it stupid?

Do you have any idea why ? please explain why it is stupid?

Why can't thought exist without awareness?


Also, note that solipsism does not deny the external world...the outer is a reflection of the inner...and not the other way around.

[Dalek Prime]

Awareness is not thought.

There is awareness of thought.

There can be awareness without thought...but there cannot be thought without awareness.

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Now that's just stupid.

Why is it stupid?

Do you have any idea why ? please explain why it is stupid?

Why can't thought exist without awareness?


Also, note that solipsism does not deny the external world...the outer is a reflection of the inner...and not the other way around.

That still leaves you a solipsist. We're done here.

[Dontaskme]

No. It was random, sans awareness.

So awareness is involved then, in the process of conception.

Even though youve already denied it is needed for the something to exist.

Paracelsus: things exist independently of awareness. And you keep swapping evolution for my parents. And you are either doing this on purpose, or you are thick. Or both. And we are done, because I won't play your game.

You seem to be getting angry...okay, so tell me how does a thing that is claimed by you to exist independantly of awareness know it is existing independently?

Can things know that? ..can a thing know it is a thing?




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[Dontaskme]

We're done here.

So you keep saying, and still you linger.


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[Dontaskme]

That still leaves you a solipsist.

How can a something that you claim to exist that doesn't need an aware creator be a solipist as well...is this something a solipist as well, is this something something else as well, is this some thing two things at once now...?

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Just answer the question...who is this some thing?

Is this some thing you?

Are you a thing?

What is this thing you are.?

And what would know this thing that you are?

Do things know?

What is a thing?

Is the knower a thing?

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Enjoy your not -knowing the answer DP

But doesn't mean that other people don't know the answer.



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Do you and Greta even know what you are talking about..on this thread?

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[Greta]

Try telling the other seven billion people that. People usually find death disturbing. Do you deny that too?

It's amusing to see people waxing philosophical about death when they have not faced or even seriously considered its reality.

Death is nothing! Pah! I laugh in the face of death! Death holds no fear for me! I can see the bigger picture beyond death ... bullshit, bullshit, bullshit ... then the fight-or-flight response kicks in ...

Nor do I need greeting card life coaching from someone who appears to me to be floundering in life.

Listen, if according to your belief there is no creator God, and the human being is just nothing more than a more sophisticated blob of algae...

I have already said numerous hundred times that I have no belief - that my gripe is with the dishonest and manipulative presentation of speculative material as fact. Again, in case you of the other one missed it, let's try to ail this one down once and for all:

I HAVE NO BELIEFS AND DO NOT ESPECIALLY SEEK TO HAVE THEM.

THUS I AM OPEN TO ALL MANNER OF POSSIBILITIES IN REALITY (WHICH HALDANE NOTED WAS "QUEERER THAN WE CAN SUPPOSE").

HOWEVER, ONE THING I LOATHE IS THE DISHONEST PRESENTATION OF BELIEFS AND SPECULATIVE MATERIAL AS ABSOLUTE FACT. THAT IS ALL AND THE ENTIRE BASIS OF MY OBJECTIONS

I expect this will be ignored too.

[Greta]

That still leaves you a solipsist.

Exactly. I've not met a more extreme silopsist online in my years online. I find it remarkable that she can actually survive with her attitude.

You would have thought she would have thrown away all her money since money is obviously not real and thus of no real value - but apparently the unreal can be real enough to treat as if real.

[Dalek Prime]

That still leaves you a solipsist.

Exactly. I've not met a more extreme silopsist online in my years online. I find it remarkable that she can actually survive with her attitude.

You would have thought she would have thrown away all her money since money is obviously not real and thus of no real value - but apparently the unreal can be real enough to treat as if real.

What I can't figure out is why she's so hard on herself when she's arguing with us... I mean, herself. And I thought I was my own worst critic... sheesh!

[Dontaskme]

DP...do you know what this “something “ is that you claimed to be?

You still haven’t answered.

If you don’t know...then how can you claim it to be..exist?

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[Dontaskme]

Exactly. I've not met a more extreme silopsist online in my years online.

Is that your belief?

If not since you say you have no beliefs....then I can’t be solipist can I?

[Dalek Prime]

Blah blah? You do know what blocked means, right?

[Dontaskme]

Blah blah? You do know what blocked means, right?

Why can’t you just answer the question...what is the something that you claim to exist ?

[Dalek Prime]

*Bloop*?

This blocking feature is actually not too shabby.

[Dontaskme]

DP...you can’t make claims if you don’t know who is making them...which makes all your so called knowledge invalid..

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[Greta]

Exactly. I've not met a more extreme silopsist online in my years online.

Is that your belief?

If not since you say you have no beliefs....then I can’t be solipist can I?

If it's a belief that is not the same as your kind of belief. It's just a provisional belief, not a creed. So my mind can be changed by new evidence, such as examples of people on forums more solipsist than you whom I might have forgotten (Syamsu? lol). It's possible that there are more extreme solipsists than you, but they are not coming to mind.

I don't like solipsism. I get it, I really do. I've been there, which is why I dislike it so much. (Like Nick, I was once enchanted by Gurdjeiff and Ouspensky's mystical claims too, but that's another story). My issue with solipsism is it's an inherently biased view that demeans and devalues environments, the Earth, the Sun - all the greater systems of which we are just a part. I'm more interested in understanding the world than dismissing it as "mere illusion".

Maybe my desire to understand is some sign of spiritual immaturity or flippancy? I don't know and don't much mind. What I can say, though, is that I find high levels of self-focus and anthropocentrism physically nauseating. It feels to me like mental sickness. Icky. Unwell.

We sit here - as extraordinary miracles surrounded by extraordinary miracles everywhere around us - but somehow find a way of dismissing all of this wonder as illusion and terribleness.

I think humans are conditioned to "switch off" from the wonder of reality so we can get things done, to order our lives. So we "put aside childish things" and focus on surviving the human social terrain. This is what dopey-head is referring to as "spirit killing" - training people to be hard-nosed adults to survive in a hard-nosed adult world (that mostly theists built, it should be said - "spare the rod and spoil the child" seems to have caught on more than "love thy neighbour").

Religion was intended as a means of switching back to attentiveness - to stopped being stressed and busy and to once again notice the wonder, and thus refresh and recharge. Now religions are mainly just political affiliations.

The religion has gone out of the religion. A naturalist like David Attenborough seems vastly more spiritual than the preachers of hate in the religions of love. Attenborough "gets it" - he sees the wonder, the miracles of nature. He's not blind to it, or just focused on its utility but appreciates it for what it is, and how it came to be.