Secular Intolerance

[Belinda]

Nick, how can you be so sure that your perceptions are true to reality? Have you never heard of optical illusions or hallucinations? Or do you believe simply that you, Nick, cannot be wrong?

[Nick_A]

Gosh, Nick, you are such a dumb ass.

I can't imagine someone wading through all your twaddle, much less bothering to reply to it.

A growl from an advocate of the Great Beast.

[fooloso4]

NIck:

When a person has the conscious experiences of top down reason …

Your so called conscious experience of top down reason is nothing more than imagining there is a transcendent reality and making inferences based on what you imagine. If you do not have knowledge of a transcendent reality you cannot reason top down, just as you cannot ski down from the top of a mountain if you have never been to top. Have you failed once again to understand the material you have quoted?

It is lost on Greta and fooloso4 but not on many young minds who naturally open to the top down approach of Platonism.

It certainly is not lost on me. I was in my youth a Platonist. It took me years to see that all that I had accepted as the truth was only what I imagined the truth must be.“Know thyself” came to mean something different. Plato had not shown me the way to surpass Socrates wisdom. On the contrary, it had only led to believe I knew something, however weak my perception of it was. I knew nothing of a transcendent reality. Like you, I was ignorant of my ignorance. I did not know that I did not know.

You have failed to learn what Plato can teach you. He has read you, but you have failed to recognize yourself. You are like the sophist who tames the great beast only you attempt to beat it into submission and thus think yourself wise.

[davidm]

Gosh, Nick, you are such a dumb ass.

I can't imagine someone wading through all your twaddle, much less bothering to reply to it.

A growl from an advocate of the Great Beast.

You are quite amusing in your transcendent ignorance that struts about on the stilts of insufferable conceit.

[Nick_A]

From the cave analogy:

Socrates] And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows with the prisoners who had never moved out of the cave, while his sight was still weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch the offender, and they would put him to death.

They do it with the kids accept that it is a spiritual death. I even underestimated Passionate secular intolerance. I should no better but live and learn. Why is it so easy for some to blindly believe that the Great Beast creates consciousness so is the source of values? Of course it doesn't make sense but that never stopped progressives.

"Nothing can have as its destination anything other than its origin. The contrary idea, the idea of progress, is poison." ~ Simone Weil

The secular intolerants pride themselves on leading Man away from its origin and call this intelligence. They will look down on the kids with an open mind and heart for not swallowing the secular conception of progress hook, line, and sinker. What a world!

[fooloso4]

Nick_A:

From the cave analogy …

You have not ascended the cave, and so, like the other cave dwellers you cannot distinguish between one who may have actually seen the truth and those who tell false tales.

Why is it so easy for some to blindly believe that the Great Beast creates consciousness …

Why is it easy for you to blindly believe the nonsense you spout about the Great Beast? You are the only one here who has made the claim that the Great Beast creates consciousness. The Great Beast is your Moby Dick. Would you, like Ahab, destroy us all to exact revenge on your white whale?

[Nick_A]

F4

Why is it easy for you to blindly believe the nonsense you spout about the Great Beast? You are the only one here who has made the claim that the Great Beast creates consciousness. The Great Beast is your Moby Dick. Would you, like Ahab, destroy us all to exact revenge on your white whale?

Consciousness either creates the Beast or the Beast creates consciousness

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... en-we-die/

Where is Aunt Millie's mind when her brain dies of Alzheimer's? I countered to Chopra. Aunt Millie was an impermanent pattern of behavior of the universe and returned to the potential she emerged from, Chopra rejoined. In the philosophic framework of Eastern traditions, ego identity is an illusion and the goal of enlightenment is to transcend to a more universal nonlocal, nonmaterial identity.

The hypothesis that the brain creates consciousness, however, has vastly more evidence for it than the hypothesis that consciousness creates the brain. Damage to the fusiform gyrus of the temporal lobe, for example, causes face blindness, and stimulation of this same area causes people to see faces spontaneously. Stroke-caused damage to the visual cortex region called V1 leads to loss of conscious visual perception. Changes in conscious experience can be directly measured by functional MRI, electroencephalography and single-neuron recordings. Neuroscientists can predict human choices from brain-scanning activity before the subject is even consciously aware of the decisions made. Using brain scans alone, neuroscientists have even been able to reconstruct, on a computer screen, what someone is seeing.

The secularist must believe the Beast creates the mind. If a person assumes higher consciousness they no longer can be a secularist. The universalist believes that the brain simply interprets devolutions of a conscious reality. The universalist can understand the motives of the secularist but the secularist through lack of experience cannot appreciate the psychological direction leading to the wholeness of higher consciousness and its fragmentation into what the computer brain interprets. Secularism is closed to the third direction of thought so is compelled to condemn the universalist as living a fairy tale. During this process many kids are spiritually killed and the secularists applaud them for finally becoming normal. As Jesus said “Let the dead bury their dead” and the Beast wants more dead to further its dominance.

[fooloso4]

Nick:

Consciousness either creates the Beast or the Beast creates consciousness

The hypothesis that the brain creates consciousness, however, has vastly more evidence for it than the hypothesis that consciousness creates the brain.

Once again you have demonstrated your lack of comprehension of the material you quote. I think your lack of reading comprehension may be one of the reasons you resent education. Brain and beast start with the same letter but they are not the same thing. Or perhaps you are just hoping that by quoting someone saying something that we will be persuaded that your nonsense is not nonsense. Or maybe you hope we will comment on the quote and be distracted from your latest bit of nonsense.

[Belinda]

Nick_A wrote:

They do it with the kids accept that it is a spiritual death. I even underestimated Passionate secular intolerance. I should no better but live and learn. Why is it so easy for some to blindly believe that the Great Beast creates consciousness so is the source of values? Of course it doesn't make sense but that never stopped progressives.

Wordsworth wrote:

… trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
Upon the growing Boy,
But He beholds the light, and whence it flows,
He sees it in his joy;
The Youth, who daily farther from the east
Must travel, still is Nature’s Priest,
And by the vision splendid
Is on his way attended;
At length the Man perceives it die away,
And fade into the light of common day.
(“Ode: Intimations of Immortality, ll. 64–76)



I don't want to encourage Nick in his wrongheaded attribution of indoctrination to "seculars", and 'truth' to some sort of theism. However the freedoms we enjoy depends upon how the young are educated, and we need to keep a look out for adverse political interference in education.

[Nick_A]

Nick:

Consciousness either creates the Beast or the Beast creates consciousness

The hypothesis that the brain creates consciousness, however, has vastly more evidence for it than the hypothesis that consciousness creates the brain.

Once again you have demonstrated your lack of comprehension of the material you quote. I think your lack of reading comprehension may be one of the reasons you resent education. Brain and beast start with the same letter but they are not the same thing. Or perhaps you are just hoping that by quoting someone saying something that we will be persuaded that your nonsense is not nonsense. Or maybe you hope we will comment on the quote and be distracted from your latest bit of nonsense.

Written with all the puffed up imagined self importance of a true secular intolerant and, as true to their cause, completely meaningless.

[Nick_A]

Nick_A wrote:

They do it with the kids accept that it is a spiritual death. I even underestimated Passionate secular intolerance. I should no better but live and learn. Why is it so easy for some to blindly believe that the Great Beast creates consciousness so is the source of values? Of course it doesn't make sense but that never stopped progressives.

Wordsworth wrote:

… trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home:
Heaven lies about us in our infancy!
Shades of the prison-house begin to close
Upon the growing Boy,
But He beholds the light, and whence it flows,
He sees it in his joy;
The Youth, who daily farther from the east
Must travel, still is Nature’s Priest,
And by the vision splendid
Is on his way attended;
At length the Man perceives it die away,
And fade into the light of common day.
(“Ode: Intimations of Immortality, ll. 64–76)



I don't want to encourage Nick in his wrongheaded attribution of indoctrination to "seculars", and 'truth' to some sort of theism. However the freedoms we enjoy depends upon how the young are educated, and we need to keep a look out for adverse political interference in education.

Read my reply in the Articles in Philosophy Now board titled “Can science explain consciousness.” Tell me how and even if your concept of education will put facts into a conscious perspective in spite of the objections from secular intolerance.

[Harbal]

It seems to me that the fact that this thread is so long lived is a prime example of secular tolerance.

[Nick_A]

It seems to me that the fact that this thread is so long lived is a prime example of secular tolerance.

Lady Doth Protest too Much
Origin
Queen Gertrude, Hamlet’s mother says this popular phrase when watching the play, The Mousetrap, staged within Hamlet. In Act -III, Scene-II of Shakespeare’s play Hamlet, Queen Gertrude quotes this phrase when respond to her son, Hamlet that, “Queen: The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” She talks about a character, the queen of the play, and feels that she looks insincere, as she repeats dramatically that she would never marry again because of her undying love for her husband.

This thread refers to something similar. There is something deeply insincere about justifying spirit killing in the young or physical killing as in abortions. As much as we justify it through social pragmatism, if someone still feels their humanity it is necessary to shout down this feeling of hypocrisy and this takes time

[Harbal]

Lady Doth Protest too Much

And Nick doth quote too much. First it's Plato and Simone Weil, now you're dragging Shakespeare into it. Do you have any thoughts of your own or are they all borrowed from your dead heroes?

[Nick_A]

Lady Doth Protest too Much

And Nick doth quote too much. First it's Plato and Simone Weil, now you're dragging Shakespeare into it. Do you have any thoughts of your own or are they all borrowed from your dead heroes?

My dead heroes help me to remember what had been forgotten. This is one of the good things humanity does for itself from generation to generation.