Hubris and Hillary Clinton

[thedoc]

So we actually agree on something. Indeed. Those who seek power are the just the ones who shouldn't have it.

I think you should sit down and have a drink, and don't let this go to your head, remember "This too shall pass".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZZNHekEQw

Indeed, but a somewhat different idea. I have seen several versions of the movie, and I read the books. And it all started by dropping a pebble down a well.

[seeds]

...unfortunately, at this point in time in what I and many others believe is just a short prelude to the impending and seemingly unavoidable collapse of the economy and social order, I don’t think it matters that much who becomes president.

The logic of this is already understood by many. No matter who becomes president, events will resolve to the same conclusion. There really is no other way to settle the score of what amounts to some of the worst fraud, corruption and mismanagement in history. The ledger will balance in the end. The question is how, when and what will be its consequences this being the most frightening to think about.

Yes, it is frightening to think about.

However, because I am old and have experienced a good long life, I am mostly frightened for the younger generations who must suffer the consequences of, as you stated “...some of the worst fraud, corruption and mismanagement in history...”

The depth of the ignorance that has brought us to this stage is hard to fathom.

In which case (and sadly speaking), because America seems to be morphing into a caricature of its own greed and narcissism, then what better person is there to represent this awful caricature than Donald Trump?

Prior to any simple minded acceptance, this statement requires more analysis. Is Hillary Clinton by any criteria excluded from this assessment since only Trump is mentioned?

No, Clinton is not excluded, for in her own way she is every bit as scary as Trump.

Wherein Trump would no doubt “stumblebum” us into destruction in ways we cannot foresee, Hillary, on the other hand, will simply “stay the course” on the path to destruction already laid-out for us.

There’s no question about the fact that we are all in serious trouble no matter which one of the two candidates takes office.

However, as I stated earlier, if it is inevitable that the ship is going down anyway, regardless of who is at the helm, then I guess it is just a simple matter of “dignity” that the last captain (in a long series of captains) of what was once a great experiment in freedom and democracy, not be a total and embarrassing clown...

...a “child in a man’s body” as stated by Sam Harris.

(Have a listen to Harris’ amusing dismantling of Trump here https://youtu.be/c1C8234kMkc, and here along with Andrew Sullivan https://youtu.be/z0nwS6VeAWc).

Why has the latter become so popular among the electorate...and not because they like him? Without the least diplomacy or finesse, succumbing often to near vulgarity he makes plain his intention to destroy the establishment which literally destroyed the well being of many more Americans than are counted in the stats. This is how he's perceived by many rightly or wrongly which ironically is opposite to your representation.

A justifiable desperation to want to change the status quo of the broken American political system is no excuse for the even greater damage that could ensue by electing a Mussolini-ish dictator into office.

It’s as if a significantly large and clueless segment of the population are completely oblivious of the fact that they are blindly following an extremely dangerous script from a horrific era of 20th century Europe.

...we are in essence witnessing the slow but inevitable workings of karma as the U.S. is about to reap the returns of that which it has been sowing around the world over the last six or so decades.

You make this out as some desired retribution on the iniquity of an evil empire not mentioning others that are also out there ready to fill power vacuums. If their agency in the West recedes ending in a whimper due to the karmic weight of their own past actions who is there to replace them? Most likely something much more inimical and foreign.

When I recall what was happening in Viet Nam during my university years back in the late 60s, I can’t even begin to imagine how many innocent men, women, and children we slaughtered in our indiscriminate “carpet bombing” of Cambodia, or from using napalm and agent orange, or how many undocumented massacres similar to My lai probably took place...

The Mỹ Lai Massacre was the Vietnam War mass killing of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968. It was committed by U.S. Army soldiers from the Company C of the 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated.

And that is just one little example of an incalculable number of horrors we rained-down on other humans in just a few short years back in the 60s, early 70s. Furthermore, this post would be far too long if I were to list the atrocities we’ve perpetrated in the Middle East in the years since Viet Nam.

And I won’t even broach the karmic imbalance of how a country that represents five percent of the world’s population, uses a percentage of the world’s resources that is vastly and immorally beyond its fair share.

The point is that it doesn’t matter who or what may be lying out there ready to fill the vacuum left by a fallen America, I’m afraid that the well-earned karmic payback for our sins is coming to get us, one way or another.
_______

[vegetariantaxidermy]

When I recall what was happening in Viet Nam during my university years back in the late 60s, I can’t even begin to imagine how many innocent men, women, and children we slaughtered in our indiscriminate “carpet bombing” of Cambodia, or from using napalm and agent orange, or how many undocumented massacres similar to My lai probably took place...

The Mỹ Lai Massacre was the Vietnam War mass killing of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968. It was committed by U.S. Army soldiers from the Company C of the 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated.

And that is just one little example of an incalculable number of horrors we rained-down on other humans in just a few short years back in the 60s, early 70s. Furthermore, this post would be far too long if I were to list the atrocities we’ve perpetrated in the Middle East in the years since Viet Nam.

Indeed. Not to mention the devastating environmental damage of what was once pristine rain forest. And it was only a fluke that Mai Lai was photographed and reported. Imagine all the others that weren't. There was one good man: Hugh Thompson. William Calley and the rest of the bastards got off scot free.

[seeds]

Indeed. Not to mention the devastating environmental damage of what was once pristine rain forest. And it was only a fluke that Mai Lai was photographed and reported. Imagine all the others that weren't.

Yes.

And as an American citizen, I am still feeling the disgust and shame of that event as if it had just happened yesterday.

But what’s even more troubling is that we have barely moved beyond it in terms of the horrible things that we are still willing to do to other humans.

What are the chances that a long and serious look into the mirror would have any effect on the sanctimonious hypocrisy with which Americans view the actions of ISIS, for example?
_______

[Hobbes' Choice]

I think you should sit down and have a drink, and don't let this go to your head, remember "This too shall pass".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZZNHekEQw

Indeed, but a somewhat different idea. I have seen several versions of the movie, and I read the books. And it all started by dropping a pebble down a well.

Once again you set off my bullshit detector.
"Several"?
There are two versions. Ralph Bakshi only made part one, which never witnesses the Balrog.

[Hobbes' Choice]

When I recall what was happening in Viet Nam during my university years back in the late 60s, I can’t even begin to imagine how many innocent men, women, and children we slaughtered in our indiscriminate “carpet bombing” of Cambodia, or from using napalm and agent orange, or how many undocumented massacres similar to My lai probably took place...

The Mỹ Lai Massacre was the Vietnam War mass killing of between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968. It was committed by U.S. Army soldiers from the Company C of the 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated.

And that is just one little example of an incalculable number of horrors we rained-down on other humans in just a few short years back in the 60s, early 70s. Furthermore, this post would be far too long if I were to list the atrocities we’ve perpetrated in the Middle East in the years since Viet Nam.

Indeed. Not to mention the devastating environmental damage of what was once pristine rain forest. And it was only a fluke that Mai Lai was photographed and reported. Imagine all the others that weren't. There was one good man: Hugh Thompson. William Calley and the rest of the bastards got off scot free.

The killers of My Lai were slapped on the wrist and eventually promoted.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

When I recall what was happening in Viet Nam during my university years back in the late 60s, I can’t even begin to imagine how many innocent men, women, and children we slaughtered in our indiscriminate “carpet bombing” of Cambodia, or from using napalm and agent orange, or how many undocumented massacres similar to My lai probably took place...


And that is just one little example of an incalculable number of horrors we rained-down on other humans in just a few short years back in the 60s, early 70s. Furthermore, this post would be far too long if I were to list the atrocities we’ve perpetrated in the Middle East in the years since Viet Nam.

Indeed. Not to mention the devastating environmental damage of what was once pristine rain forest. And it was only a fluke that Mai Lai was photographed and reported. Imagine all the others that weren't. There was one good man: Hugh Thompson. William Calley and the rest of the bastards got off scot free.

The killers of My Lai were slapped on the wrist and eventually promoted.

And called 'heroes'. I found one of the worst ones on Facebook, and he has all these people on there thanking him for being a 'hero to his country'. I wish there was a vomit smilie.

[thedoc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZZNHekEQw

Indeed, but a somewhat different idea. I have seen several versions of the movie, and I read the books. And it all started by dropping a pebble down a well.

Once again you set off my bullshit detector.
"Several"?
There are two versions. Ralph Bakshi only made part one, which never witnesses the Balrog.

I've seen at least two movies that include the scene on the bridge with the Balrog, just because you say there were only one doesn't make it so, you are probably just as full of BS as you claim that I am. I don't count your memory as being very reliable.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Indeed, but a somewhat different idea. I have seen several versions of the movie, and I read the books. And it all started by dropping a pebble down a well.

Once again you set off my bullshit detector.
"Several"?
There are two versions. Ralph Bakshi only made part one, which never witnesses the Balrog.

I've seen at least two movies that include the scene on the bridge with the Balrog, just because you say there were only one doesn't make it so, you are probably just as full of BS as you claim that I am. I don't count your memory as being very reliable.

1) "Two" is not "several."
2) I did not say there was only one.
3) Ralph Bakshi, after making the acclaimed "Wizards", mad a cartoon travestry of LOTR which has only one episode.

There has only ever been two attempts at LOTR, the first was shite and the 2nd was successful.
I'll add the "several LOTRs" movies you the book of poetry written by Dr, Zhivago. LOL. .. in 'thedocs bullshiting list'.

[Dubious]

There is little left to argue with in your well-written response. The points you make are undeniable the only difference is I interpret the current debasement in leadership and the events of the past within a slightly different perspective.

...as I stated earlier, if it is inevitable that the ship is going down anyway, regardless of who is at the helm, then I guess it is just a simple matter of “dignity” that the last captain (in a long series of captains) of what was once a great experiment in freedom and democracy, not be a total and embarrassing clown...

It doesn't have to go down nor should it. That, I think, would be the worst scenario in spite of all the hideous faux pas and crimes the U.S. has committed and accumulated. Can other major powers be trusted not to have acted with the same indifference to human decency as the U.S.? History responds with a categorical NO! Furthermore, the great experiment in freedom and democracy was at best only half successful. Based on the noble and idealistic words of the Constitution, one would have expected better going forward but it didn't take long before a near genocide was inflicted on native populations. That which was seemingly meant to apply to ALL was applied very selectively...just as it was in Ancient Greece.

Power, wherever it ranges, is in a constant state of either maintaining or enhancing itself and when in a rage it's capable of anything as in Vietnam where Americans proved themselves in competition with the worst of the Nazis. The "defoliation" of whole ecosystems through chemicals in order to inflict injury and make populations more vulnerable deserves the ultimate in human contempt not to be forgotten. The Germans made it a Law not to forget theirs causing retribution to be retroactive and enforced against those discovered having committed atrocities. Instead of sinking, Americans would do themselves and the world a great service if they would allow the national conscience a retroactive glance at their actions and what it's done for them and the world so far.

As you mention, the pain which serves as catalyst is already in sight. An enfeebled America in place of a resurrected one would be a catastrophe for the West. The reasons for that should not be beyond the reach of anyone's imagination.

In history there remains nothing to be "forgiven" only remembered. That's what history is for...a constantly updated "instruction manual" of thou shalt and thou shalt not...which few in power ever manage to ponder.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

There is little left to argue with in your well-written response. The points you make are undeniable the only difference is I interpret the current debasement in leadership and the events of the past within a slightly different perspective.

...as I stated earlier, if it is inevitable that the ship is going down anyway, regardless of who is at the helm, then I guess it is just a simple matter of “dignity” that the last captain (in a long series of captains) of what was once a great experiment in freedom and democracy, not be a total and embarrassing clown...

It doesn't have to go down nor should it. That, I think, would be the worst scenario in spite of all the hideous faux pas and crimes the U.S. has committed and accumulated. Can other major powers be trusted not to have acted with the same indifference to human decency as the U.S.? History responds with a categorical NO! Furthermore, the great experiment in freedom and democracy was at best only half successful. Based on the noble and idealistic words of the Constitution, one would have expected better going forward but it didn't take long before a near genocide was inflicted on native populations. That which was seemingly meant to apply to ALL was applied very selectively...just as it was in Ancient Greece.

Power, wherever it ranges, is in a constant state of either maintaining or enhancing itself and when in a rage it's capable of anything as in Vietnam where Americans proved themselves in competition with the worst of the Nazis. The "defoliation" of whole ecosystems through chemicals in order to inflict injury and make populations more vulnerable deserves the ultimate in human contempt not to be forgotten. The Germans made it a Law not to forget theirs causing retribution to be retroactive and enforced against those discovered having committed atrocities. Instead of sinking, Americans would do themselves and the world a great service if they would allow the national conscience a retroactive glance at their actions and what it's done for them and the world so far.

As you mention, the pain which serves as catalyst is already in sight. An enfeebled America in place of a resurrected one would be a catastrophe for the West. The reasons for that should not be beyond the reach of anyone's imagination.

In history there remains nothing to be "forgiven" only remembered. That's what history is for...a constantly updated "instruction manual" of thou shalt and thou shalt not...which few in power ever manage to ponder.

Well once they've started a nuclear war with Russia then I suppose we can ponder over whether anyone else would have been worse or not. And lets not forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the fact that the Americans are the only ones who've actually used nuclear weapons. Just look at the number of Americans who think that it was a great and noble thing to do.

[Dubious]

There is little left to argue with in your well-written response. The points you make are undeniable the only difference is I interpret the current debasement in leadership and the events of the past within a slightly different perspective.

...as I stated earlier, if it is inevitable that the ship is going down anyway, regardless of who is at the helm, then I guess it is just a simple matter of “dignity” that the last captain (in a long series of captains) of what was once a great experiment in freedom and democracy, not be a total and embarrassing clown...

It doesn't have to go down nor should it. That, I think, would be the worst scenario in spite of all the hideous faux pas and crimes the U.S. has committed and accumulated. Can other major powers be trusted not to have acted with the same indifference to human decency as the U.S.? History responds with a categorical NO! Furthermore, the great experiment in freedom and democracy was at best only half successful. Based on the noble and idealistic words of the Constitution, one would have expected better going forward but it didn't take long before a near genocide was inflicted on native populations. That which was seemingly meant to apply to ALL was applied very selectively...just as it was in Ancient Greece.

Power, wherever it ranges, is in a constant state of either maintaining or enhancing itself and when in a rage it's capable of anything as in Vietnam where Americans proved themselves in competition with the worst of the Nazis. The "defoliation" of whole ecosystems through chemicals in order to inflict injury and make populations more vulnerable deserves the ultimate in human contempt not to be forgotten. The Germans made it a Law not to forget theirs causing retribution to be retroactive and enforced against those discovered having committed atrocities. Instead of sinking, Americans would do themselves and the world a great service if they would allow the national conscience a retroactive glance at their actions and what it's done for them and the world so far.

As you mention, the pain which serves as catalyst is already in sight. An enfeebled America in place of a resurrected one would be a catastrophe for the West. The reasons for that should not be beyond the reach of anyone's imagination.

In history there remains nothing to be "forgiven" only remembered. That's what history is for...a constantly updated "instruction manual" of thou shalt and thou shalt not...which few in power ever manage to ponder.

Well once they've started a nuclear war with Russia then I suppose we can ponder over whether anyone else would have been worse or not. And lets not forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the fact that the Americans are the only ones who've actually used nuclear weapons. Just look at the number of Americans who think that it was a great and noble thing to do.

I don't know how this fits in with anything I wrote...and it wouldn't be the first time. That's all I have to say.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

I don't know how this fits in with anything I wrote...and it wouldn't be the first time. That's all I have to say.

You keep saying that we could get much worse to fill a hypothetical 'power vacuum'. It's a recurring theme with you. How is that not relevant to what I wrote?

[XENA3001]

Now that the FBI is investigating Clinton's private email server, I suspect that we are going to witness the dynamic known as hubris and nemesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris I suspect that Biden will join the race.

Of COURSE you turned out to be full of shit.

[tbieter]

Now that the FBI is investigating Clinton's private email server, I suspect that we are going to witness the dynamic known as hubris and nemesis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris I suspect that Biden will join the race.

Of COURSE you turned out to be full of shit.

Clinton blames the FBI investigation for her loss. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/po ... comey.html