Wage Discrimination Versus Totalitarianism

[bobevenson]

Wage Discrimination
By Free-market Economist Walter Williams

"President Obama Vows Zero Tolerance on Gender Wage Gap," read one headline. Another read, "Women Still Earned 77 Cents On Men's Dollar In 2012." It's presumed that big, greedy corporations are responsible for what is seen as wage injustice. Before discussing the "unjust" wage differences between men and women, let's acknowledge an even greater injustice — which no one seems to care about — age injustice.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, workers ages 16 to 24 earn only 54 cents on every dollar earned by workers 25 or older (http://tinyurl.com/n6puf6j). This wage gap is 43 percent greater than the male/female gap. Our president, progressives, do-gooders, academics and union leaders show little interest in big, greedy corporations ripping off the nation's youth. You might say, "Whoa, Williams! There's a reason younger people earn less than older people. They don't have the skills or experience." My response would be — if I shared the vision of the president, media elite and do-gooders: Just as there can be no justification for big, greedy corporations paying women less than they pay men, there's no justification for them to exploit the nation's youth.

The 77 percent median income statistic, used in discussions about male/female differences in earnings, tells us nothing about differences that might explain the differences in income, and it leads to stupid discussions. Let's use some common sense and look at some differences between men and women that may have a bearing on earnings.

Kay S. Hymowitz's article "Why the Gender Gap Won't Go Away. Ever," in City Journal (summer 2011), shows that female doctors earn only 64 percent of what male doctors earn. But it turns out that only 16 percent of surgeons are women, whereas 50 percent of pediatricians are women. Even though surgeons have put in many more years of education and training than pediatricians and earn higher pay, should Obama and Congress equalize their salaries? Alternatively, they might force female pediatricians to become surgeons.

There are inequalities everywhere. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Asian men and women have median earnings higher than white men and women. Female cafeteria attendants earn more than their male counterparts. Females who are younger than 30 and have never been married earn salaries 8 percent higher than males of the same description. Among women who graduated from college during 1992-93, by 2003 more than one-fifth were no longer in the workforce, and another 17 percent were working part time. That's to be compared with only 2 percent of men in either category. Hymowitz cites several studies showing significant career choice and lifestyle differences between men and women that result in differences in income.

According to 2010 BLS data, the following jobs contain 1 percent or less female workers: boilermakers, brick masonry, stonemasonry, septic tank servicing, sewer pipe cleaners and trash collectors. By contrast, women are 97 percent of preschool and kindergarten teachers, 80 percent of social workers, 82 percent of librarians and 92 percent of dietitians and nutritionists and registered nurses.

For people having limited thinking skills, differences in earnings cannot be explained away. For them, Congress has permitted — and even fostered — a misallocation of people by race, sex and ethnicity. They'll argue that courts have consistently concluded that "gross" disparities are probative of a pattern and practice of discrimination. So what to do? Maybe President Obama and Congress should require women, who are overrepresented in preschool and kindergarten teaching, to become boilermakers, garbage collectors and brick masons and mandate that male boilermakers, trash collectors and brick masons become preschool and kindergarten teachers until both of their percentages are equal to their percentages in the population. You say, "Williams, to do that would be totalitarianism!" I say that if Americans accept that Congress can force us to buy health insurance, how much more totalitarian would it be for Congress to force people to take jobs they don't want?

[bobevenson]

The above article strikes at the very foundation of the ridiculous concepts concerning minimum wage and wage inequality. Of course, none of this means anything to left-wing liberals and their ilk.

[Ginkgo]

The above article strikes at the very foundation of the ridiculous concepts concerning minimum wage and wage inequality. Of course, none of this means anything to left-wing liberals and their ilk.

I'd like to look at the first part of Williams' argument, in relation to "ZeroTolerance on Gender Wage"

Obama isn't declaring zero tolerance on the disparity that exists between junior and senior wages. It says that the zero tolerance is in relation to gender disparity. I don't think it helps Williams to start his argument with a strawman.

P.S. I think I am in for it now.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

It would be a lot more interesting if you wrote your own material, instead of just copy-pasting someone else's.

[bobevenson]

It would be a lot more interesting if you wrote your own material, instead of just copy-pasting someone else's.

Please, if I wrote the article, you idiots would dismiss it out of hand. Walter Williams has all the credentials in the world, and you dismiss him out of hand. You got a problem with what Walter says, let me know, but otherwise, clam up!

[bobevenson]

Obama isn't declaring zero tolerance on the disparity that exists between junior and senior wages. It says that the zero tolerance is in relation to gender disparity.

Actually, it doesn't make any difference what the reasons are for gender disparity in wages. Labor is something that is for sale. You have a buyer and a seller. If the buyer wants to pay a woman less than a man for doing the same, more, or better work, that is the buyer's prerogative in a free-market. If you don't agree with that, then you can't complain if the government throws you in jail for paying a female plumber less than a male plumber.

[Ginkgo]

Obama isn't declaring zero tolerance on the disparity that exists between junior and senior wages. It says that the zero tolerance is in relation to gender disparity.

Actually, it doesn't make any difference what the reasons are for gender disparity in wages. Labor is something that is for sale. You have a buyer and a seller. If the buyer wants to pay a woman less than a man for doing the same, more, or better work, that is the buyer's prerogative in a free-market. If you don't agree with that, then you can't complain if the government throws you in jail for paying a female plumber less than a male plumber.

I don't necessarily disagree with that. All I am saying, or have said is that Williams starts his argument with a strawman. I said nothing more or nothing less than that.

[bobevenson]

All I am saying, or have said is that Williams starts his argument with a strawman.

This is how Williams starts his article: "President Obama Vows Zero Tolerance on Gender Wage Gap," read one headline. Another read, "Women Still Earned 77 Cents On Men's Dollar In 2012." It's presumed that big, greedy corporations are responsible for what is seen as wage injustice.

straw man definition
A made-up version of an opponent's argument that can easily be defeated. To accuse people of attacking a straw man is to suggest that they are avoiding worthier opponents and more valid criticisms of their own position: “His speech had emotional appeal, but it wasn't really convincing because he attacked a straw man rather than addressing the real issues.”

It seems to me that Williams is attacking the issue directly.

[Ginkgo]

All I am saying, or have said is that Williams starts his argument with a strawman.

This is how Williams starts his article: "President Obama Vows Zero Tolerance on Gender Wage Gap," read one headline. Another read, "Women Still Earned 77 Cents On Men's Dollar In 2012." It's presumed that big, greedy corporations are responsible for what is seen as wage injustice.

straw man definition
A made-up version of an opponent's argument that can easily be defeated. To accuse people of attacking a straw man is to suggest that they are avoiding worthier opponents and more valid criticisms of their own position: “His speech had emotional appeal, but it wasn't really convincing because he attacked a straw man rather than addressing the real issues.”

It seems to me that Williams is attacking the issue directly.

Sorry Bob, my error. I was actually referring to the second paragraph of Williams' article.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

It would be a lot more interesting if you wrote your own material, instead of just copy-pasting someone else's.

Please, if I wrote the article, you idiots would dismiss it out of hand. Walter Williams has all the credentials in the world, and you dismiss him out of hand. You got a problem with what Walter says, let me know, but otherwise, clam up!

I will let Williams know. There would be little point in taking it up with you.

[bobevenson]

All I am saying, or have said is that Williams starts his argument with a strawman.

This is how Williams starts his article: "President Obama Vows Zero Tolerance on Gender Wage Gap," read one headline. Another read, "Women Still Earned 77 Cents On Men's Dollar In 2012." It's presumed that big, greedy corporations are responsible for what is seen as wage injustice.

straw man definition
A made-up version of an opponent's argument that can easily be defeated. To accuse people of attacking a straw man is to suggest that they are avoiding worthier opponents and more valid criticisms of their own position: “His speech had emotional appeal, but it wasn't really convincing because he attacked a straw man rather than addressing the real issues.”

It seems to me that Williams is attacking the issue directly.

Sorry Bob, my error. I was actually referring to the second paragraph of Williams' article.

Again, Williams is putting into context the reason women are paid less than men, which is not a straw-man argument.

[Ginkgo]

Bob, do you agree that in the first two paragraphs Williams is critical of Obama because he is talking about gender wage injustice? Williams then points to the fact there is an even greater injustice. That of age injustice when it comes to wages.

Are you happy with this interpretation to date?

[bobevenson]

Bob, do you agree that in the first two paragraphs Williams is critical of Obama because he is talking about gender wage injustice? Williams then points to the fact there is an even greater injustice. That of age injustice when it comes to wages.

Are you happy with this interpretation to date?

Looking at wages from Obama's position, Williams is saying that Obama should be railing against age discrimination as well as gender discrimination since age discrimination is an even more serious problem. Of course, Williams point is that neither age nor gender discrimination qualify as wage injustice as he illuminates in the rest of the article.

[Ginkgo]

Bob, do you agree that in the first two paragraphs Williams is critical of Obama because he is talking about gender wage injustice? Williams then points to the fact there is an even greater injustice. That of age injustice when it comes to wages.

Are you happy with this interpretation to date?

Looking at wages from Obama's position, Williams is saying that Obama should be railing against age discrimination as well as gender discrimination since age discrimination is an even more serious problem. Of course, Williams point is that neither age nor gender discrimination qualify as wage injustice as he illuminates in the rest of the article.

If the press release Williams has cited only deals with gender wage inequality and mentions nothing about youth inequality then Williams has a strawman. If on the other hand there is additional evidence in the press release in respect to comparative youth wage inequality then I stand corrected.

[bobevenson]

Bob, do you agree that in the first two paragraphs Williams is critical of Obama because he is talking about gender wage injustice? Williams then points to the fact there is an even greater injustice. That of age injustice when it comes to wages.

Are you happy with this interpretation to date?

Looking at wages from Obama's position, Williams is saying that Obama should be railing against age discrimination as well as gender discrimination since age discrimination is an even more serious problem. Of course, Williams point is that neither age nor gender discrimination qualify as wage injustice as he illuminates in the rest of the article.

If the press release Williams has cited only deals with gender wage inequality and mentions nothing about youth inequality then Williams has a strawman. If on the other hand there is additional evidence in the press release in respect to comparative youth wage inequality then I stand corrected.

No, I'm sorry, you stand corrected, period.