Understanding Forum participants

For all things philosophical.

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Felasco
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:38 pm

Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Felasco »

How then is it even possible to have intelligent discourse?
It most media it's called editing. Here in forum land it's called moderation. It's a very simple concept that few in forum land seem to be able to get.

Intelligent discourse occurs when unintelligent posts aren't published. The only way that can happen is if someone(s) serves as a filter to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I suggest you direct your attention at the publishing model instead of individuals. Even if you could push a button and get rid of all the "trolls" in any particular forum, they'll soon be replaced with new ones if the same "anybody can post anything" publishing model stays in place.
Kelly
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:04 am

Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Kelly »

Felasco,

I agree, if statements presented/posted by participants are not supported by logical argument, when called for, the posted statements should be deleted. When Project Logic was active it would pay for propositional statements that advanced philosophical knowledge if supported by logical argument. Unfortunately I could not delete irrelevant useless statements. This is why I am hoping to soon create my own Philosophy website, even better funded, to pay for ideas that advance philosophical knowledge.

kelly
Felasco
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:38 pm

Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Felasco »

Kelly wrote:This is why I am hoping to soon create my own Philosophy website, even better funded, to pay for ideas that advance philosophical knowledge.
Yes, creating your own site is probably the best option for you given your concerns and goals etc. In case you don't know, the forum software that runs this site is free and available from phpbb.com. Good luck!
Kelly
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:04 am

Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Kelly »

The purpose of Philosophy, most beneficial to mankind, is understanding the nature of abstract concepts, i.e. Knowledge and Existence, thus, revealing the process of rational/systematic thinking. This argument explains how this happens: If a thing exists as itself and not some other thing, it must have attributes that are different from the attributes of any other thing, else everything that exist would be a single thing. And it follows, the Existence of a thing is a construct if its’ unique attributes. This explains the Nature of Existence. Thus; constructing Knowledge of a thing is the systematic mental process of recognizing and remembering which attributes relate to the existence of which things. This is the Nature of Knowledge and reveals the mechanics of systematic/rational thinking.

The only difference is that Science constructs knowledge of the nature of the existence of physical things and Philosophy must construct comprehensive definitions to have knowledge of abstract concepts, i.e. Knowledge itself and Existence itself. The reasoning/thinking process of constructing knowledge of Knowledge itself is the same systematic process of recognizing the abstract attributes that relate to the most comprehensive definition of Knowledge. Thus it follows; Philosophical Knowledge is understanding the process of rational thinking because that is the result of understanding the nature of Knowledge and Existence.

This is an explanation explaining the mechanics of rational thinking grounded on understanding the nature of Knowledge and Existence. There are other concepts also related to rational thinking not factored in this condensed explanation. Later

kelly
Felasco
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Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Felasco »

If a thing exists as itself and not some other thing, it must have attributes that are different from the attributes of any other thing, else everything that exist would be a single thing.
In the real world, everything that exists is a single thing. It's thinking that conceptually divides the one in to many.

An example might be the human body. While the body has a countless number of parts, the parts only function in the context of the whole. Thus, when we say "me" we are referring to the entire body, not a list of parts.

A human body is a part within the larger context of a community. Community is a part within the larger context of the biosphere, which is a part within the larger context of the galaxy, and so on.

It's perhaps interesting to recall that the actual physical substance of our body was created in supernova explosions many light years away from Earth. We are intimately connected to the vast reaches of distant space. "We" are not one thing and "stars" another thing except in the conceptual realm.
Philosophical Knowledge is understanding the process of rational thinking because that is the result of understanding the nature of Knowledge and Existence.
A key thing to understand about the process of thinking is that it, by it's very nature, introduces a distorting illusion of division and separation in to the observation. We can't think our way out of this distortion because it arises not from what we think, but from thought itself.
Philosophical Knowledge is understanding the process of rational thinking because that is the result of understanding the nature of Knowledge and Existence.
Human knowledge is a highly imperfect symbolic representation of reality, a representation heavily distorted by the limitations of the tool being used to create the representation.

Existence is the single unified real world.
aiddon
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:22 pm

Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by aiddon »

Kelly wrote:Felasco,

I agree, if statements presented/posted by participants are not supported by logical argument, when called for, the posted statements should be deleted. When Project Logic was active it would pay for propositional statements that advanced philosophical knowledge if supported by logical argument. Unfortunately I could not delete irrelevant useless statements. This is why I am hoping to soon create my own Philosophy website, even better funded, to pay for ideas that advance philosophical knowledge.

kelly
You want to advance philosophical knowledge by paying people over the internet? I read the previous thread in relation to this. How does rolling out bland statements, purporting to be insightful epistomological revelations, advance philosophical knowledge? Do you really think a forum can do this? Philosophy had advanced painstakingly in the last 3000 years through tomes and tomes of literature, debate, academic discourse. Philosophy is much greater than simple statements of logic. Science advances knowledge. Philosophy advances how we think, not what we know.
aiddon
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Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by aiddon »

HexHammer wrote:
aiddon wrote:I'm unfamiliar with the term troll, so I'll ignore it.

Let's take a step back for a moment...I intervened in this thread because an accusation was made that the majority of people on this forum are simpletons. I merely pointed out that you peppered your post with misspellings and grammatical errors. Then you accused me of mocking people with dyslexia. So, I pointed out that dyselxia is not a spelling disorder. I am a teacher of children, so I am familar with dyselxia. Now who is being the irrational one here? Take a chill, man. I ain't looking for a fight - but I take offense when I'm being called a simpleton.
If you don't know the term "troll" then you have live under a rock for a decade.

If you are trying to say that dyslexia only limited to reading difficulties, but magically people can spell what they can't read, correctly, then you are inventing your own reality.

Besides, just because you are teacher proves nothing, there are utterly incompetent people, who should get fired, and you seems like one of them.
You are right now just proving that you indeed are categorizing youself as a simpleton, specially when I havn't called you one.

All I did was presenting my view of the statistics, that is not calling you anything, not accusing you of anything.
You are jumping to conclusions, whcih tragicly proves you can only preform parrot speeches, not really able to comprehend the simple subject.

Maybe I missed something, where do I explicitly call "aiddon" (you) a simpleton?
I've just looked it up - trolling, that is...you think I am trolling, eh?

I suggest your accusation that 96-97% of people on this forum are simpletons is trolling, buddy. I suggest you calling me an incompetent teacher and that I should be sacked is trolling. I suggest that you accusing me of living under a rock for the last decade is trolling. I suggest that, in fact, you are the troll, not me.

Next time, don't be so quick to dish out the insults...or I may get you reported for trolling.
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HexHammer
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Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by HexHammer »

Maybe I should repeat my question that you seems to dodge with a clever counterattack.

"Maybe I missed something, where do I explicitly call "aiddon" (you) a simpleton?"

As I see it, a troll is something that provide irrational and unreasonable arguments, all my arguments are sound and withing reason.
Therefore you are the troll, and I am the philosopher.
Kelly
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:04 am

Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Kelly »

“Understanding Forum participants”, I would say, is accomplishing the purpose for which it was started. The thread documents the total lack of consensus among those who identify with Philosophy and is a testament to Philosophy’s chaotic lack of realism. If Philosophy were grounded on comprehensive definitions of the philosophical concepts, it would be impossible for students of Philosophy to disagree about much. Can you imagine students of Physics disagreeing about everything related to Physics? I will wager that anyone reading this cannot define a single concept whose definition 50% of those who identify with Philosophy will agree with. Of course, this chaotic unrealistic environment caused by lack of comprehensive definitions is perfect for those who choose to satisfy their need for self-esteem by attempting to discredit any idea different from their own. This thread proves that, and creates an “Understanding of Forum participants”.

kelly
Skip
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Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Skip »

Maybe it just proves that philosophy is alive.
How much contention can you generate over Latin or volcanic rock? It's easy to have solid definitions and academic consensus about subjects that are safely lodged in the calcified past - harder* to nail down anything that's still kicking.
*Crueller, too!
Kelly
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:04 am

Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Kelly »

Philosophy is one of the few remaining asylums where those enamored with their own words are not restricted by reality. Yes, it is still alive but barely. Its’ detractors now have the long knife of the internet and are incessantly carving away and killing it bit by bit. The days of unrealistic Philosophy are fast coming to an end, evidenced that most public Philosophy forums have already shut down. No entity that ignores reality can exist for ever and only when senseless cult Philosophy is replaced with responsible realistic Philosophy will it be a benefit to mankind.

I once thought that traditional Philosophy could be reeducated to be realistic but I was naive. Cult Philosophy has destroyed the ability of its' follows to think rationally and I now believe that reeducation may not be possible. For mankind to have the greatest benefit from Philosophy, Cult Philosophy must be shown for what it is to be completely replaced by a Logical Philosophy grounded on comprehensive understanding of the concepts that reveal the mechanics of Rational Thinking.

kelly
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HexHammer
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Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by HexHammer »

Skip wrote:Maybe it just proves that philosophy is alive.
How much contention can you generate over Latin or volcanic rock? It's easy to have solid definitions and academic consensus about subjects that are safely lodged in the calcified past - harder* to nail down anything that's still kicking.
*Crueller, too!
Tell me how great is the demand for philosophers out there in the real world? ..that's right, no one wants philosophers, baecause all they can do is ask silly selfexplanatory questions, most are too stupid to go research themselves and demands others to give them all the answers.

Are philosophers good at engineering? ..no they can't build a bridge by sitting and discussing back and forth.

Can they build a jumbo jet, and can they fly it? ..no they can neither.

Can they do surgery? No, they wouldn't have a clue where to cut, and why to cut.

..infact what are they good at ?
uwot
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Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by uwot »

HexHammer wrote:Are philosophers good at engineering? ..no they can't build a bridge by sitting and discussing back and forth.

Can they build a jumbo jet, and can they fly it? ..no they can neither.

Can they do surgery? No, they wouldn't have a clue where to cut, and why to cut.

..infact what are they good at ?
Philosophy is about putting your experiences into a context. In practise this means doing exactly what Kelly is complaining that philosophy doesn't do. Everybody has some principles that guide them: seeing is believing, trust your head not your heart; god exists, no he doesn't; having respect for people matters, stuff everyone else. It is true that people have argued about those sort of core values for thousands of years to absolutely no avail, but the fact is that people have different outlooks and always will. What philosophers try to do is organise their thoughts in a coherent manner, so that the world makes sense according to their core values; even if those core values are the cause of disagreement or conflict. What some opponents will do is argue about the core values. What philosophical opponents will do is try and prove that the logic is faulty and that the worldview is incoherent.
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HexHammer
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Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by HexHammer »

uwot wrote:
HexHammer wrote:Are philosophers good at engineering? ..no they can't build a bridge by sitting and discussing back and forth.

Can they build a jumbo jet, and can they fly it? ..no they can neither.

Can they do surgery? No, they wouldn't have a clue where to cut, and why to cut.

..infact what are they good at ?
Philosophy is about putting your experiences into a context. In practise this means doing exactly what Kelly is complaining that philosophy doesn't do. Everybody has some principles that guide them: seeing is believing, trust your head not your heart; god exists, no he doesn't; having respect for people matters, stuff everyone else. It is true that people have argued about those sort of core values for thousands of years to absolutely no avail, but the fact is that people have different outlooks and always will. What philosophers try to do is organise their thoughts in a coherent manner, so that the world makes sense according to their core values; even if those core values are the cause of disagreement or conflict. What some opponents will do is argue about the core values. What philosophical opponents will do is try and prove that the logic is faulty and that the worldview is incoherent.
What you really are talking about is cozy chatters who mistake themselves for being philosophers, as philosophy means love of wisdom, but what cozy chatters do, is exchangeing knowledge.

If you indeed are a real philosopher then solve these:

- welders claim that the weld is stronger than the steel.

- was King Solomon right in when he gave the child to the mother?
Kelly
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Re: Understanding Forum participants

Post by Kelly »

Uwot,

Read your last post, don’t you see a perfect example of using “platitudes”.

Wiki: "A platitude is a trite, meaningless, or prosaic statement, generally directed at quelling social, emotional, or cognitive unease. The word derives from plat, Frenchword for "flat." Platitudes are geared towards presenting a shallow, unifying wisdom over a difficult topic. However, they are too overused and general to be anything more than undirected statements with ultimately little meaningful contribution towards a solution. Examples could be statements such as "Meet in the middle", "Everybody has a right to an opinion", "Everything happens for a reason", "It is what it is", and "Do what you can". Platitudes are generally a form of thought-terminating Cliché."
Philosophy is about putting your experiences into a context. In practise this means doing exactly what Kelly is complaining that philosophy doesn't do. Everybody has some principles that guide them: seeing is believing, trust your head not your heart; god exists, no he doesn't; having respect for people matters, stuff everyone else. It is true that people have argued about those sort of core values for thousands of years to absolutely no avail, but the fact is that people have different outlooks and always will. What philosophers try to do is organise their thoughts in a coherent manner, so that the world makes sense according to their core values; even if those core values are the cause of disagreement or conflict. What some opponents will do is argue about the core values. What philosophical opponents will do is try and prove that the logic is faulty and that the worldview is incoherent.
It's all well and good to talk about "core values" but the "core values" the founding philosophers attempted to establish was understanding the nature of the concepts i.e. existence, knowledge, truth, right, consciousness, etc. Unfortunately their approach to understanding the nature of these concepts was not systematic and they failed. This has caused Traditional Philosophy to become merely the archived writings documenting their failure. The followers of this failed Philosophy have no logical foundation to guide their thinking, resulting in confusion and total lack of consensus among themselves. Evidence of this is any Philosophy forum.

I ask you; what is so offensive to the followers of failed Traditional Philosophy that its' members abhor any effort to engage in collaborative coordinated effort to correct its' failure. This is the reason; our psychologically existence is a construct of our individual ideas about the nature of things and conditions. Thus, the state of our psychological existence/self-esteem depends on our individual ideas being "right" and any ideas different from our own is a threat to our ideas being "right" and to our self-esteem. The followers of failed traditional Philosophy feel threatened by new and different ideas that can fix their failed Philosophy.

If this psychological condition is not detrimental enough to fixing the problem, the mental ability of the follows of traditional Philosophy has been so degraded that the systematic effort required is outside their capabilities. Evidence, is the fact that philosophers have not constructed, in twenty-five centuries, a single comprehensive definition of any of the concepts, which, if these concepts were not important to the welfare of mankind, Philosophy itself would not exist.

A comprehensive understanding of the philosophical concepts is more important to the welfare of mankind today than ever. Yet philosophers continue to resist any effort to fix the problem by constructing the new and different ideas needed.

The condition of the concept Truth determines the interaction of individuals in our effort to satisfy our needs on which the survival of mankind depends. Yet the followers of failed Philosophy vigorously resist any effort to construct a comprehensive definition of Truth because the ideas needed are different from their own.

kelly
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