What is obscene ?

[duszek]

I remember an attempt to express the essence of the obscene, I think it was Jean-Paul Sartre who wrote it:

Obscene is something which shows itself to one (se dévoile), although one does not want to see it.

This is a good start, I think, but it is not the whole story, it seems to me.

How could we go on ?

[The Voice of Time]

add to Satre: out of a sense of inappropriateness

inappropriate definition:

"adjective: not conforming with accepted standards of propriety or taste; undesirable"

I think we can scratch the last part about "undesirable", because a lot of inappropriate things can often be desirable to people. Sex and movies and music are classical situations where these desires (of inappropriate things) can play out.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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If you perceive your sex acts as an inappropriate thing, are you doing it right?






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[The Voice of Time]

If you perceive your sex acts as an inappropriate thing, are you doing it right?

Sex can be a lot of things, my point was that in the many things that sex can be, there are things which can be considered inappropriate, and because of that one should do it.

While I find dirty talk mostly silly, I saw an episode of a Norwegian TV-show where among things there was dirty talk like "take your underwear off you filthy whore!", now, how many times is it appropriate to call somebody "filthy whore?", however, both in sex, in movies, and in music it could be something desirable for a variety of reasons. Maybe it adds up in playfulness, maybe it's an insult that fits with the scene of a movie, or maybe it's a catchy chorus "Ooooooh! She was a filthy whoooooore! Ooooooh! She was a really filthy whooooooore!".

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Not sure I understand your point.



Aren't those two words used together rather demeaning?


I've said a lot of bad things - worse things...much worse than this, but I don't believe I have ever used those two words together.





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[reasonvemotion]

War is the only obscenity.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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.........................................................................So true. So true...




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[duszek]

I think that obscene is strongly subjective:

some people want to see certain things, to them these things are not obscene,

other people would rather not see certain things, to them these things are obscene.

If we perceive something as obscene what emotions or feelings do we feel ?
Disgust ? Revulsion ? Embarrassement ?

[Impenitent]

I think that obscene is strongly subjective:

some people want to see certain things, to them these things are not obscene,

other people would rather not see certain things, to them these things are obscene.

If we perceive something as obscene what emotions or feelings do we feel ?
Disgust ? Revulsion ? Embarrassement ?

yes

individual freedom is beautiful

socialism is obscene

-Imp

[artisticsolution]

yes

individual freedom is beautiful

socialism is obscene

-Imp

There is no such thing as true individual freedom. It is ALL socialism. The only difference is in your ideology. Either you want socialism to benefit only yourself at the detriment to others or you want socialism to benefit all.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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[Harbal]

War is the only obscenity.

I think you are overlooking country music.

[Skip]

Obscene is whatever makes you ashamed of your own species.
For some people, that's the process of making more of us; for others, it's the various methods of making fewer of us; for others still, it's whatever they wish they could do, but dare not; for bigots, whatever their mind-controller taught them to hate.
For me, it's every manifestation of destructive stupidity.

[popeye1945]

I remember an attempt to express the essence of the obscene, I think it was Jean-Paul Sartre who wrote it:

Obscene is something which shows itself to one (se dévoile), although one does not want to see it.

This is a good start, I think, but it is not the whole story, it seems to me.

How could we go on ?

At least in some instances, it is showing a person who views things as society has shaped them, by dressing up what is base about life and the struggle for existence, where he would rather believe in romanticism. Pornography is such a thing, procreation has been romanticized beyond what is realistic, and to show it in its starkness is shocking and obscene to a condition of sensitivity to a gentler view. Most children do not get a realistic education about the struggles of life and the process of sexual selection. It is all so romanticized to leave one vulnerable and naive, and this is passed on to the next generation. Being shocked and disappointed at a discovered reality much harsher than anticipated is an obscene shock. To the religious, the reality that science has revealed must be obscene to them as it reveals a harshness to reality they would rather not deal with, and possibly cannot deal with. Religion was also instrumental in distancing us from identifying with nature and the creatures we are distantly related to. So, anytime our ignorance and fantasy about life are shattered we are bound to experience it as obscene. The other is violating commonly held values, particularly if they involve values that help define our common humanity; thus, violating the very concept of what is civilized, this is the greatest of obscenities, of which there are ample examples in the past few centuries.

[Walker]

Obscenity causes a biological reaction, e.g., revulsion to the extent of uncontrollable vomiting.

An example from art is when the droogs turned cops catch Alex and beat him up after his treatment (Clockwork Orange). An example in life is seeing a human torn to pieces (e.g., auto accident).

For a drunk, an example is a moment of clarity when the personal disaster (obscenity) of life is suddenly seen, and felt in the gut.


Explanations follow the biological reaction.