The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Impenitent wrote: ↑Fri Feb 27, 2026 1:37 am thou shalt not kill

because it offends the morals of god?

no, because the police will bust you

-Imp

Only if they catch you.

More importantly: don't kill without just cause cuz that life your eyein' ain't yours to take.

*Is slavery (the treatment and use of one's fellows as property) wrong? *If so: why? I have a problem with ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, which divide actions into two rigidly separate categories. I think life is generally too complex for that. So I’ll answer a slightly different question: is slavery bad? (‘...

The belief "there is no God" has nothing to do with "there is no morality" or "morality exists" Without the Creator there is no objective measure so what you keep calling morality is just, as I say, personal and aggregated preference. So, yeah God, and a belief in God,...

That's a long story. Experience suggests you want to be fed in McNuggets and will reject anything else as overcomplicated. So there's not much likelihood of this working out. Oh, I'm sure, with your vast wisdom and mighty intellect (not to mention your infinite patience), you could find some way to...

The idea that atheism is supposed to produce axioms of morality is an invention of IC and you. Mannie's point, and mine, is not that atheism should ground morality, but that it can't . And my extended point is none of the associated strains of thinking -- determinism, materialism, scientism -- can ...

Anything else? That is: anything in context with the actual topic on the table (can atheism offer a moral ground?).

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 26, 2026 9:33 pm So you have axioms.

You must be so proud.

I'll take that as your admission.

The atheist can certainly construct a system of morality. Based on what? Atheism sez there is no God, so there's no objective moral measure. What's left to the atheist but his feelings ? How about this. Human morality exists because humans have evolved as obligatory social animals (and obligatory s...

As a deist, you are no better off in this regard. You aren't deriving any moral precepts from JUST "there is a god". It is from additional details of your deism that you get moral precepts, yes? And you do need at least one prior moral precept << If there is God, then I should obey, worsh...

At least IC is saying that he has the stone tablets directly from the infallible head honcho. :mrgreen: Can't see how that's my problem. Take that up with him. To sum up... My thrust is this: it doesn't matter if deism or Christianity is right or true, only that either does what atheism, and by ext...

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 26, 2026 5:49 pm Apparently, you have convinced yourself that you are doing something superior to what an atheist might do.

As far as moral groundings go, yes, natural rights grounded in an objective moral measure (God) is superior to sympathy, empathy, and shared humanity.

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Thu Feb 26, 2026 5:17 pm
The atheist can certainly construct a system of morality.

Based on what? Atheism sez there is no God, so there's no objective moral measure. What's left to the atheist but his feelings?

You don't have any axioms about morality. Sure I do: a person, any person, anywhere or when, has a natural right to his, and no one else's, life, liberty, and property. From that extends what is and isn't permissible among and between persons (morality). Yours? What can extend out from 'I just don'...

You're a deist. You don't have any holy edict that says slavery is wrong. Slavery is something that you don't like. Yes, I believe in a Creator. I arrived at this belief thru reason coupled with intuition, and, also thru reason & intuition, I conclude morality is definitive (not subject to inte...

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Feb 26, 2026 4:18 pm

Atheism offers no reason why slavery is wrong beyond 'I or we just don't like it.'

Nothing more is required.

For a true morality, applicable to all, yeah, a damn sight more is required.